Pipe makers that use water glass to coat bowls?

[georged]

tmb ---
I strongly suggest you save yourself a lot of time and aggravation---as well as that of the board's---by doing a bit of research regarding the bowl coating question before continuing your campaign.
It has been argued to death without result since before the Internet. Endlessly back and forth, back and forth. Evidence this, experiment that. Demonstration here, refutation there. Nothing has ever been resolved. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Ever. Not once.
Hundreds---if not thousands---of pages of debate can be easily located using Google. (No small number of them right here on PM.com, in fact.)
If, after doing that, you still think pursuing your arguments is a good idea, by all means knock yourself out. I doubt you'll find many people willing to engage with you, though.

 

[tmb152]

Haven't the time for that George so I will gladly take your word.
Campaign? Interesting choice of word.
I only jumped on this thread originally because I thought it was actually about glass. Personally, I couldn't give a flying crap about bowl coatings and have never worried or even looked at any of mine; they were what they were. Once you stuff 'em full of tobacco, all bowls look the same . . .

 

[ssjones]

I've never used a pipe coated with water glass.
Most current artisan makers seem to use a coating made with activated charcoal and gelatin. This stuff seems pretty harmless:

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-269-activated%20charcoal.aspx?activeingredientid=269&
My taste experience with this type of coating is that it was taste neutral and the pipe build a tobacco cake rapidly. So, once it is covered, no harm, no foul - right?
I might even experience a reduction in gas? That is something my family would support.

 

[phil67]

Hydrated silica- Used in toothpaste as an whitening abrasive- Don't smoke toothpaste!!

Damn... there goes this evenings after dinner smoke!

 

[zack24]

Hydrated silica- Used in toothpaste as an whitening abrasive- Don't smoke toothpaste!!
Damn... there goes this evenings after dinner smoke!

But it does solve the never ending question on this forum on how to keep your pearly whites really, really white...

 

[sasquatch]

Coat your bowl for whiter teeth!
Wait, what?

 

[warren]

When I see a new "bowl coating" thread I avoids it like the plague until there are a couple dozen posts. Then it has usually become an amusing read. I fully believe some members bring up the subject simply for the entertainment value.

 

[sablebrush52]

When I see a new "bowl coating" thread I avoids it like the plague until there are a couple dozen posts. Then it has usually become an amusing read. I fully believe some members bring up the subject simply for the entertainment value.

Beats "manliness" threads, Penzance threads and Royal Yacht threads.

 

[sailortodd]

I fully believe some members bring up the subject simply for the entertainment value.

That was not the case here. I'm glad it has garnered such in depth discussion, because there are some great gems about bowl coatings. Most coatings are designed to mimic that initial cake layer you get when breaking in your pipe, comprised of some form of carbon with a binder to help it adhere to the bowl (keep in mind I'm a layman rather poorly educated on the matter, so correct anything I misspeak). I have read articles lauding their effectiveness in easing the break in process, and I've read articles damning them for causing a crumbly cake, tasting bad or just being plain unnatural. I appreciate their use, and my pipes thus far have had some sort of coating. What it was made of I have no clue; I may have at least one pipe that used water glass. I have read up on bowl coatings, and my preference would be to avoid sodium silicate in future purchases, which is why I was hoping to find a list of major manufacturers that favor sodium silicate in their bowl coating formula. It is my (perhaps misguided) understanding that it is a harder coating to remove if I choose to remove a bowl coating, and forms an arguably (obviously highly debated) impermeable barrier once cured by several bowls of pipe smoking. Does anyone know of major manufacturers that favor water glass?
On another note, the honey idea is great, and sort of similar to getting a pipe with a carbon coated bowl. From my understanding, as you smoke, the heat burns the sugar into a more pure carbon coating, expediting the cake building process. Again, complaints arise about this use of a figurative catalyst to quicker cake layer causing a fragile/crumbly cake. Maybe, maybe not. "YMMV" is an apt statement here.

 

[tmb152]

ST, I am only guessing here, but I would expect a bowl coating of sodium silicate to have a shininess to it, a glint or sheen, whereas regular coatings are flat black, but I have no direct experience in the matter and maybe others can confirm or refute that. And assuming it is applied wet and left to dry, the stuff is an additive to many cements, so applied to the briar, it should bond aggressively.

 

[zack24]

my preference would be to avoid sodium silicate in future purchases, which is why I was hoping to find a list of major manufacturers that favor sodium silicate in their bowl coating formula.

There is not a commercial pipe company that will tell you what they use- sodium silicate is very widespread for the binder among artisan and commercial pipe makers because it works very well. I'm pretty darn sure that Briarworks uses waterglass. Todd Johnson's postings on the benefits of the material were what led me to use that as a binder.If you see a peeling coating, it's usually at the top part of the bowl where someone let buffing compound or wax into the chamber- coatings won't stick to wax.

I am only guessing here, but I would expect a bowl coating of sodium silicate to have a shininess to it, a glint or sheen, whereas regular coatings are flat black

Nope...Carbon and waterglass are flat black that tends to have a dark grey tint after a few months...

 

[halfy]

Water DOES penetrate briar, though tars do not. It's all about the size of the molecule ... That's why you see the darkening of the bowl section just on sub-mm scale.
Nicely done coating DOES prevent burn outs and promote absorption. It's about the surface (carbon coating) and interfacial (briar/coating) chemistry and structure also on the molecular level. The thermal conductivity of carbon is several times higher than that of briar, so excessive heat is easier transferred and distributed to a wider range in the coated case. And carbon is more porous than briar. Thus as long as carbon constitutes a decent percentage in the coating it would be more absorbent. To be easy, see the Todd experiments on youtube (though as a scientist I consider his tests are pretty rough and not that convincing...).
Above is solid science, do not argue with that. As for the harm of water glass, I bet smoking is much more harmful ...
After that, it's all about the personal choice of coat or not ... For me, coated pipes seem more complete and decent. It's the tailcoat on stage ... Does it have anything technically a must? I don't think so. But I respect the aesthetic evolutions.

 

[jerwynn]

Water glass:

Hahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!

 

[tbradsim1]

Thin layer of coke, carbon is a really good insulator. I operated 7 Cracking furnaces with 6 inch diameter alloy tubes fired at 2000 degs, inside the tube Gas Oil was heated and we made little molecules from Big molecules. We shot the tubes with a thermal gun each week, and the thinnest layer of coke would hamper the heat transfer, solution was cut out Gas oil inject ethane and burn the coke out. My concern is with that layer of coating the briar does not get the cureing a non coated pipe gets. ?????????

 

[tmb152]

The thermal conductivity of carbon is several times higher than that of briar

Nope. Sorry, gotta disagree. Carbon is an insulator, better than wood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities

 

[halfy]

@tmb152

Nope. Sorry, gotta disagree. Carbon is an insulator, better than wood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities

Are you kidding me? You might have looked at "carbon dioxide"... Check graphite then see wood ...

Most forms of carbon are conductive except diamond and some nano structures ... and though diamond is insulator it's very thermal conductive.
Thermal conductivity in W/mK
Graphite,

natural 25-470[63]
Wood, moist +>=12% water: 0.09091[104]-0.16[45]-0.21[104]-0.4[7]
The Royal Society:

Fir, 15%, ⊥ to the grain: 0.117[25]

Mahogany, 15%, ⊥ to the grain: 0.167[25]

⊥ to the grain: 0.155[25]

Oak, 14%, ⊥ to the grain: 0.117[25]

Spruce: ⊥ to the grain: 3.40%: 0.122[25]

⊥ to the grain: 5.80%: 0.126[25]

⊥ to the grain: 7.70%: 0.129[25]

⊥ to the grain: 9.95%: 0.133[25]

⊥ to the grain: 17.0%: 0.142[25]

parallel to the grain: 16%: 0.222[25

 

[tbradsim1]

Nope Carbon is an insulator, that's why we spent millions of Dollars perfecting an Ethane burn of the Alloy tubes carrying our gas oil to be cracked with heat. More carbon inside the tube less cracking, were are talking a layer thin as a sheet of paper.

 

[kola]

I sure enjoy tmb152's postings. It's nice to see a knowledgeable new-blood speaking out truthfully.
That's one of the main reasons I don't visit or post here very much. And sadly most of the other pipe forums are the same way... with the good old boys, their ass-kissers and the cocky know-it-alls.