Pipe Makers Ignoring Messages?

[Law]

Hello people,

So, more recently, I noticed that a lot of pipe estate sellers, carvers, and "companies" stop replying to my messages, especially in instagram. I don't know if it makes sense, but some, when asking questions, stop replying even when they see the message. I sometimes follow up with them, and they see it, yet they don't reply.

I had this with Merchant service pipes, emc_custom_cobs, Farid Dunhill, and even some in eBay and a while back on Email with a carver that I forgot his name.

Weird. With emc custom cobs, I wanted a commission and he even told me he will try something close to my mentioned commission, then he just...didnt reply. I contacted him twice, he sees them, even posts on his instagram stories, without replying to me. Merchant service had an issue with their website, and it costed me the pipes re-stock, and they ignored my messages after I told them. Farid dunhill did something similar to emc custom cobs. I don't contact them further than 2-3 messages after they stop replying.

I also had a carver, the one I forgot his name, not reply when I asked him about a stem color availability... another one about a closer picture of his product... just weird.

Why is that? I genuinely have grown curious since they seem like nice people, even hearing Merchant Service pipes and their stories on, I believe, pipe magazine.com and pipeandtamper podcast, they seem like decent nice people. Even some YouTubers promote their products, and yodeling how great they are...but when I have a problem with their website, and contact them directly in instagram DM's, they would stop replying to me when they seemingly realize they have ran out of stock, like they know their product would sell regardless of their customer service and now they don't need to assist me.

I had great exchanges with Askwith, Scottie piersel, and Sean Reum (reumpipes) on instagram. Very helpful, and wouldn't hesitate to work with them. They make it worthy for the prices they ask for.

Any experiences or reasons why would they act that way?

 

[rmbittner]

I may be of the wrong generation to comment on this, but: Instagram would be the *last* way I would try to reach out to a company. (But via eBay would run a close second.)

If you’re trying to communicate with a business, use their web site. Reach out via email. Or give them a call. (I’d also say that Twitter can work, but I don’t use it and have no idea what its current state is, post-Musk.)

But it kind of sounds like you’re wanting to start conversations with these folks. (You mention that they “stop replying,” which suggests that maybe they’re tiring of the questions or that you’re asking unnecessary questions.) Regardless of how you attempt to reach out, I’d suggest being as concise as possible—one short paragraph—asking your question, then thanking them for their time.

Bob

 

[didimauw]

This is not something I've ran to, however my experience is limited. I do however know that the meerschaum carvers in turkey, seem to reply to questions immediately. Sometimes before I even ask the question it seems. Lol. Maybe they are hurting for business more than those in the US.

 

[Law]

I may be of the wrong generation to comment on this, but: Instagram would be the *last* way I would try to reach out to a company. (But via eBay would run a close second.)

If you’re trying to communicate with a business, use their web site. Reach out via email. Or give them a call. (I’d also say that Twitter can work, but I don’t use it and have no idea what its current state is, post-Musk.)

But it kind of sounds like you’re wanting to start conversations with these folks. (You mention that they “stop replying,” which suggests that maybe they’re tiring of the questions or that you’re asking unnecessary questions.) Regardless of how you attempt to reach out, I’d suggest being as concise as possible—one short paragraph—asking your question, then thanking them for their time.

Bob

Most carvers I contacted, if not all, do reply on instagram, and instagram is actually pretty easy to communicate with these days, it isn't just emails. Think of it as a quick way access to someones shop and directly contacting them.

I dont really start conversations with them. They simply don't follow up on my situation. I don't go on and on asking them questions. Especially when I actually had someone I was commissioning a piece from. Why wouldn't he reply to me asking questions and was ready to pay them? Merchant service didn't really reply to help fix my problems. As soon as I mentioned their website caused a problem that interfered with their re-stock of pipes, and I couldn't get them they just stopped replying. Every one of these people post nearly everyday, except merchant service, and keep seeing my messages as it is labels "seen" on instagram but they just don't reply back.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I agree about Instagram being a poor way to communicate. It may also be you're seen as a tire kicker and not a real buyer. The type or detail level of your questions may be wearing them out our presenting concerns over how nit picky you'll be after the sale. All just pure speculation given the limited info you provided. Could just be bad luck and timing given the time of the year it is.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

This is not something I've ran to, however my experience is limited. I do however know that the meerschaum carvers in turkey, seem to reply to questions immediately. Sometimes before I even ask the question it seems. Lol. Maybe they are hurting for business more than those in the US.

Agreed, the Meer carvers seem to never sleep.

 

[didimauw]

And with Instagram, and even today's text messaging and Snapchat, gone are the days when you can not respond to a message without anyone knowing you saw it. I miss those days.

Even emailing, some I get ask me if I want to send the sender a reciept so they know I opened it.

No, I don't want them to know that I looked at the message yet. I need time to process.

 

[Law]

I agree about Instagram being a poor way to communicate. It may also be you're seen as a tire kicker and not a real buyer. The type or detail level of your questions may be wearing them out our presenting concerns over how nit picky you'll be after the sale. All just pure speculation given the limited info you provided. Could just be bad luck and timing given the time of the year it is.

Some of these carvers post daily on instagram, and I am sure I am not as picky as you think. I just want a certain commission and that's it, I was ready to pay too. Strange honestly.

 

[Law]

And with Instagram, and even today's text messaging and Snapchat, gone are the days when you can not respond to a message without anyone knowing you saw it. I miss those days.

Even emailing, some I get ask me if I want to send the sender a reciept so they know I opened it.

No, I don't want them to know that I looked at the message yet. I need time to process.

Well I have to agree, but I wouldn't mind getting a reply a day or two later. I know people get busy. It's just that they don't reply back, and they go back to posting normally on instagram while also seeing my messages.

 

[rmbittner]

Also, I’ll add that I don’t think it’s any kind of trend or anything. Everyone has things going on in their lives. Some parts of the world are still dealing with serious fallout from Covid, the supply chain issues have not yet resolved (which makes it challenging for shipping, materials, etc.), people have family/work (pipe-related work may not be their only job) responsibilities/emergencies, etc.

 

[didimauw]

Well I have to agree, but I wouldn't mind getting a reply a day or two later. I know people get busy. It's just that they don't reply back, and they go back to posting normally on instagram while also seeing my messages.

I should have also mentioned that I understand your frustrations. You would think as a business owner you'd have better etiquette.

 

[rmbittner]

It's just that they don't reply back, and they go back to posting normally on instagram while also seeing my messages.

…which, honestly, is their right.

It is also your right to choose not to do business with—or pursue business with—the companies that don’t deliver the level of service you expect.

 

[Law]

I should have also mentioned that I understand your frustrations. You would think as a business owner you'd have better etiquette.

I am willing to give them my money, and I really just ask them 2-3 questions, and they would stop replying. I just don't understand that. And even when I wanted a commission they would stop replying. that honestly leaves a bad taste especially when you have been following them for long.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Some of these carvers post daily on instagram, and I am sure I am not as picky as you think. I just want a certain commission and that's it, I was ready to pay too. Strange honestly.

I was only speculating, I think nothing. Again, perhaps just a coincidence. I think a number of these carvers may be old school and don't consider Instagram as their preferred method of communication. If I had money to spend and the provider didn't want it by not communicating, I'd move on and find one that does.

In general, I've found the carvers reasonably easy and prompt to communicate. I've bought from Jack Howell, Jose Rubio, Martin Cermak and Ryan Alden the past five years. Multiple from each. And Altinay and Altinok from.Turkey for Meers. Without exception, they've all mostly responded to emails within 24 hours. Rare for them not to.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

How many contacts with how many carvers about how many pipes and how many actual orders? Speculating here as well, but seems like expectations might be a little high for what may appear to be random Instagram/social media posts, or are these private messages? Some folks like to be contacted via Instagram but others don't seem to really use it as their preferred method of communication. I guess you just sort out who, to you, you feel comfortable with.

 

[Law]

How many contacts with how many carvers about how many pipes and how many actual orders? Speculating here as well, but seems like expectations might be a little high for what may appear to be random Instagram/social media posts, or are these private messages? Some folks like to be contacted via Instagram but others don't seem to really use it as their preferred method of communication. I guess you just sort out who, to you, you feel comfortable with.

Private messages. I don't go on asking everybody questions except when I am serious about a product, also, if only enquiring about a certain thing, I ask them once.

The carvers I am talking about, or estate sellers/merchant service usually are active on instagram, replying to people and tagging others. they seem to know their way, and even initially replying to me. They just stop dong so mid way. An example is Farid Dunhill, I told him about the availability of a pipe, he told me it's sold. I told him about another estate, he said he has one and he will send me some pictures. he didn't. no reason. he goes on posting pipes for sale each day.

 

[sasquatch]

Here's my experience as a pipe maker of no real repute on Instagram.

I post a picture of a half finished billiard and say something like "Hoping for a smooth, we'll see." Something silly.

I come back in two hours and I have like 90 messages. Many are from Beautiful Russian Women who WANT TO MEET ME. Many are just tags and comments on my photo, many are private messages about buying the pipe. Many go like this:

Hey I love that pipe, I'm sure it's sold, but I wonder how much it would be for you to make me one like that?

Hi, um, if you are looking for a smooth, probably about 350, maybe 400 bucks if you want really nice grain etc.

Okay that's fine. But if you could make me one just like it only instead of a billiard a blowfish and instead of ebonite I have this pickle-juice based resin my friend makes, and I need it to be exactly 6.294" long, and a smooth of course, lots of birdseye.

Hi, um, that's a totally different pipe, and not really one in the style I make.

Yeah okay buy how much?

No idea, I'm not interested in that pipe, it's not what I do.

But you could do it?

I ... maybe I could, but it's a huge waste of my time, not part of my business model, to explore a new shape and a new stem material and learn how it all works instead of just making pipes people already want to buy.

Yeah but then you'd have this as part of what you do, right?

Um, no. I have a very specific market that I serve.

Why are you being such an asshole about this? I thought a pipe maker might CARE about someone who wants a pipe made, like if you don't have customers, you don't eat, right? What the hell is the world even coming to? I hope you choke on a chicken leg!



And on and on and on for as long as you like. Red but not THAT red, big but not THAT big, this big, a bulldog, but not a bulldog with a diamond shank, the other kind of bulldog. It's fucking awful. Awful.

It's hugely tedious, it's a waste of my time to go through through dozens and hundreds of details, specs, etc, and then if I do make the pipe, the guy will probably disappear.... no. No thanks.

So I don't post in IG hardly at all, and if I do it's usually just to show off a fun blast or something, I try NOT to sell on there, and if I get at all busy on there it's a huge snowball of irrelevant messages from people who have no idea how the industry works. Some are well meaning, most even, some are not.

So it's not for me.

And something about how you are doing your business, Law, is not for the people you are trying to do business with. You cannot MAKE someone do business with you. It's not a flaw on their part necessarily.

 

[Law]

Here's my experience as a pipe maker of no real repute on Instagram.

I post a picture of a half finished billiard and say something like "Hoping for a smooth, we'll see." Something silly.

I come back in two hours and I have like 90 messages. Many are from Beautiful Russian Women who WANT TO MEET ME. Many are just tags and comments on my photo, many are private messages about buying the pipe. Many go like this:

Hey I love that pipe, I'm sure it's sold, but I wonder how much it would be for you to make me one like that?

Hi, um, if you are looking for a smooth, probably about 350, maybe 400 bucks if you want really nice grain etc.

Okay that's fine. But if you could make me one just like it only instead of a billiard a blowfish and instead of ebonite I have this pickle-juice based resin my friend makes, and I need it to be exactly 6.294" long, and a smooth of course, lots of birdseye.

Hi, um, that's a totally different pipe, and not really one in the style I make.

Yeah okay buy how much?

No idea, I'm not interested in that pipe, it's not what I do.

But you could do it?

I ... maybe I could, but it's a huge waste of my time, not part of my business model, to explore a new shape and a new stem material and learn how it all works instead of just making pipes people already want to buy.

Yeah but then you'd have this as part of what you do, right?

Um, no. I have a very specific market that I serve.

Why are you being such an asshole about this? I thought a pipe maker might CARE about someone who wants a pipe made, like if you don't have customers, you don't eat, right? What the hell is the world even coming to? I hope you choke on a chicken leg!



And on and on and on for as long as you like. Red but not THAT red, big but not THAT big, this big, a bulldog, but not a bulldog with a diamond shank, the other kind of bulldog. It's fucking awful. Awful.

It's hugely tedious, it's a waste of my time to go through through dozens and hundreds of details, specs, etc, and then if I do make the pipe, the guy will probably disappear.... no. No thanks.

So I don't post in IG hardly at all, and if I do it's usually just to show off a fun blast or something, I try NOT to sell on there, and if I get at all busy on there it's a huge snowball of irrelevant messages from people who have no idea how the industry works. Some are well meaning, most even, some are not.

So it's not for me.

And something about how you are doing your business, Law, is not for the people you are trying to do business with. You cannot MAKE someone do business with you. It's not a flaw on their part necessarily.

Lol, I see how that is ridiculous. I understand what you are saying, and trust me I am not that type of guy. I do sell occasional pipes, estates, and I do see those messages from types of people where it leads to nowhere, with too much focus on detail and condition of the pipe, and at the end it goes no where and it may be that you have dodged a bullet from people who would find too much to complain. I understand. I am not talking about scrolls of text too, it is literally " I want a lighter shade of brown, and please keep the diameter around 20mm" is that too much for pipe carvers? I also offer to pay first, or pay half and half when its done. another one is the Farid dunhill example, he doesn't send me the pics for no reason or merchant service not fixing the problem with their website? it starts to not make sense and it seems more that something is missing from business etiquette, but at the end you are right. I don't need to buy from them and tell them directly how they should run their business, as I hope no body does to me, but that won't stop me from saying what I think of them, if I also elaborate it and discuss it not just spew nothings.

 

[georged]

Here's my experience as a pipe maker of no real repute on Instagram.

I post a picture of a half finished billiard and say something like "Hoping for a smooth, we'll see." Something silly.

I come back in two hours and I have like 90 messages. Many are from Beautiful Russian Women who WANT TO MEET ME. Many are just tags and comments on my photo, many are private messages about buying the pipe. Many go like this:

Hey I love that pipe, I'm sure it's sold, but I wonder how much it would be for you to make me one like that?

Hi, um, if you are looking for a smooth, probably about 350, maybe 400 bucks if you want really nice grain etc.

Okay that's fine. But if you could make me one just like it only instead of a billiard a blowfish and instead of ebonite I have this pickle-juice based resin my friend makes, and I need it to be exactly 6.294" long, and a smooth of course, lots of birdseye.

Hi, um, that's a totally different pipe, and not really one in the style I make.

Yeah okay buy how much?

No idea, I'm not interested in that pipe, it's not what I do.

But you could do it?

I ... maybe I could, but it's a huge waste of my time, not part of my business model, to explore a new shape and a new stem material and learn how it all works instead of just making pipes people already want to buy.

Yeah but then you'd have this as part of what you do, right?

Um, no. I have a very specific market that I serve.

Why are you being such an asshole about this? I thought a pipe maker might CARE about someone who wants a pipe made, like if you don't have customers, you don't eat, right? What the hell is the world even coming to? I hope you choke on a chicken leg!



And on and on and on for as long as you like. Red but not THAT red, big but not THAT big, this big, a bulldog, but not a bulldog with a diamond shank, the other kind of bulldog. It's fucking awful. Awful.

It's hugely tedious, it's a waste of my time to go through through dozens and hundreds of details, specs, etc, and then if I do make the pipe, the guy will probably disappear.... no. No thanks.

So I don't post in IG hardly at all, and if I do it's usually just to show off a fun blast or something, I try NOT to sell on there, and if I get at all busy on there it's a huge snowball of irrelevant messages from people who have no idea how the industry works. Some are well meaning, most even, some are not.

So it's not for me.

And something about how you are doing your business, Law, is not for the people you are trying to do business with. You cannot MAKE someone do business with you. It's not a flaw on their part necessarily.

This ^^^^

The repair version is forever branching into "explanations of components of previous explanations" regarding shop procedures, outcome speculation, tools, chemicals, etc.

I'd guess that you have set off the "quicksand pit" alarm in the sellers you've talked to, Law.

How and why I haven't the slightest idea, but there you go.

 

[Law]

This ^^^^

The repair version is forever branching into "explanations of components of previous explanations" regarding shop procedures, outcome speculation, tools, chemicals, etc.

I'd guess that you have set off the "quicksand pit" alarm in the sellers you've talked to, Law.

How and why I haven't the slightest idea, but there you go.

I really don't see the alarm. I see your point clearly, of course, but when I do commission one piece I really don't think I have warranted enough, mid way, to stop replying. I actually had Jim Craig of Ashton spend 2 months delaying a commission of a pipe, and I was still patient, and one day I told him I was going to travel for a month so we had to delay the pipe further, he made me the the pipe in 4-6 hours...I believe this is a very temperamental business. I only had conversations with pipe makers in instagram and some in email, and a good bunch had nothing but good things, even when they didn't have the capacity to make me the pipe. I thanked them and left it there.

Also, I was astonished with merchant service pipes. They simply ignored me as soon as I told them that the pipes sold out and I can't buy it either way due to their website problem, even suggesting to reserve me the pieces. I waited months, gotten the notification on time, added the items in cart, at the end the website failed me. I sent them a video of the problem 5 minutes into the re-stock, so I wasn't fooling around trying to get the pipes reserved for me. they didn't do anything to help me as soon as their stock finished.

It seems more than just that I trigger something.