Pipe Bag Stolen
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I don't think the suggestion is to shoot to kill over a kaywoodie and some loose tobacco.
Rather, the realization has come to someone that there are individuals "out there" who will do harm, serious harm, over "a kaywoodie and some loose tobacco".
These individuals looked for a victim and found one. They used the advantage of numbers and the element of surprise to achieve their goal. If 'standard resistance" would have been employed by our fellow member (yelling, not letting them have the bag, his wallet, watch, etc.), the likelihood is that they would have employed violence against him. This could have been anything from a simple beating (if a beating can be simple at the fists and boots of 3 thugs) to use of a weapon of their own.
It used to be, in these discussions, that it was difficult to prove to folks who just didn't care to hear it, that thse things were true. No all one has to do is spend an hour browsing youtube and liveleak to come away with dozens of filmed incidents. People literally minding their own business and being violently attacked.
I am fortunate enough to get to work daily with criminals. Many of them violent opportunists. It comes as no surprise to me that things like this happen. It happens in prison. Why would it not happen more "in the world"?
The next situation one might run into is the thugs approaching the member and his wife and/or kids. That is actually a very favorable situation for the thugs. After all, who will risk their wife and kids safety? Only you add in a bit of intoxication, a bit of anger, and a complete lack of consequential thinking (all very common elements, you understand) and pretty soon you have an assault on the man so that the thugs can prove the alpha male bit in front of the woman, maybe a beat down on the woman if she is lucky, or a sexual assault if she is not.
And for those of us who think that, due to size or training, that they are a physical fighting match for 2 or 4 assailants who do this very thing on a common basis.....well.....I can only hope you really are.
For the rest of us mortals who plan on defending "us and ours", the basic use of a defensive firearm is a right that Citizens typically enjoy, and Subjects are typically confused about.
On a very personal note, speaking only for myself, I really do not like those folks who say or imply that when violence comes knocking that they suggest "you do little to nothing other than comply". Mostly because if it happens in both of our company, "your" expectation will suddenly become that "I" will take care of everything for you, and if I am successful, you will then become the biggest advocate for the assailants against me.
IN summation, no I do not think any person should be shot for loose change. But if they plan on beating me down to access that loose change, they should be.
And, if it is true that if you shoot someone is justified self defense and you deal with psychological issues, I can only wonder about the psychological issues you would forever deal with for letting a thug assault a loved one, or even yourself, while you stood back and offered platitudes and pleadings for it to stop, and had nothing else to bring to the game.
Rather, the realization has come to someone that there are individuals "out there" who will do harm, serious harm, over "a kaywoodie and some loose tobacco".
These individuals looked for a victim and found one. They used the advantage of numbers and the element of surprise to achieve their goal. If 'standard resistance" would have been employed by our fellow member (yelling, not letting them have the bag, his wallet, watch, etc.), the likelihood is that they would have employed violence against him. This could have been anything from a simple beating (if a beating can be simple at the fists and boots of 3 thugs) to use of a weapon of their own.
It used to be, in these discussions, that it was difficult to prove to folks who just didn't care to hear it, that thse things were true. No all one has to do is spend an hour browsing youtube and liveleak to come away with dozens of filmed incidents. People literally minding their own business and being violently attacked.
I am fortunate enough to get to work daily with criminals. Many of them violent opportunists. It comes as no surprise to me that things like this happen. It happens in prison. Why would it not happen more "in the world"?
The next situation one might run into is the thugs approaching the member and his wife and/or kids. That is actually a very favorable situation for the thugs. After all, who will risk their wife and kids safety? Only you add in a bit of intoxication, a bit of anger, and a complete lack of consequential thinking (all very common elements, you understand) and pretty soon you have an assault on the man so that the thugs can prove the alpha male bit in front of the woman, maybe a beat down on the woman if she is lucky, or a sexual assault if she is not.
And for those of us who think that, due to size or training, that they are a physical fighting match for 2 or 4 assailants who do this very thing on a common basis.....well.....I can only hope you really are.
For the rest of us mortals who plan on defending "us and ours", the basic use of a defensive firearm is a right that Citizens typically enjoy, and Subjects are typically confused about.
On a very personal note, speaking only for myself, I really do not like those folks who say or imply that when violence comes knocking that they suggest "you do little to nothing other than comply". Mostly because if it happens in both of our company, "your" expectation will suddenly become that "I" will take care of everything for you, and if I am successful, you will then become the biggest advocate for the assailants against me.
IN summation, no I do not think any person should be shot for loose change. But if they plan on beating me down to access that loose change, they should be.
And, if it is true that if you shoot someone is justified self defense and you deal with psychological issues, I can only wonder about the psychological issues you would forever deal with for letting a thug assault a loved one, or even yourself, while you stood back and offered platitudes and pleadings for it to stop, and had nothing else to bring to the game.
Every word written by Portacast above is precisely true -- whether you like it or not.
I have written extensively on the subject (and some toher topics) here: Suburban Sheepdog Blog
It is tragically sad that we now live in an age so many adult men are so utterly ignorant or deluded about this topic. It borders on the criminal that so many, who are charged by God and nature with the the nondelegable responsibility for taking care of themselves and their families, simply refuse to be educated out of that ignorance.
I have written extensively on the subject (and some toher topics) here: Suburban Sheepdog Blog
It is tragically sad that we now live in an age so many adult men are so utterly ignorant or deluded about this topic. It borders on the criminal that so many, who are charged by God and nature with the the nondelegable responsibility for taking care of themselves and their families, simply refuse to be educated out of that ignorance.
portascat, I like your spirit, and I agree with you on both the emotional and intellectual level; but given the current social climate, our position just isn't practical.
One of the reasons that I advocate a lot of training and practice is so that you, not your emotional state, is in control of the situation in which a firearm might come out. Your brain is your first and most important weapon. It needs training just as the body requires it.
The idea of shooting someone over an object does not bring me joy but neither will I allow myself to be beaten, injured, and perhaps killed for another person's greed, ego, or drug habit. Neither would I allow such to happen to my wife. I would rather deal with it in court or on the shrink's couch than from the morgue or the hospital.
Re using a gun for threatening purposes. You should NEVER make a threat with a weapon you are not prepared to use. The chances are very good you will be on the receiving end of that weapon, if you do use it as an empty threat. The person you are dealing with may not have what you think is a normal response to the appearance of a weapon. He might want that pistol more than he originally wanted your wallet.
The idea of shooting someone over an object does not bring me joy but neither will I allow myself to be beaten, injured, and perhaps killed for another person's greed, ego, or drug habit. Neither would I allow such to happen to my wife. I would rather deal with it in court or on the shrink's couch than from the morgue or the hospital.
Re using a gun for threatening purposes. You should NEVER make a threat with a weapon you are not prepared to use. The chances are very good you will be on the receiving end of that weapon, if you do use it as an empty threat. The person you are dealing with may not have what you think is a normal response to the appearance of a weapon. He might want that pistol more than he originally wanted your wallet.
That really sucks. I'm glad you're okay, but it's too bad you weren't able to escape with all your belongings. They probably tried to use it to smoke some of their stash, and once they realized not all pipes are the same, ditched it. Punks... :crazy:
I forget who said this regarding professional training, but its absolutely true;
During an attack you won't miraculously rise to the level of the situation, you will fall to the level of your training.
During an attack you won't miraculously rise to the level of the situation, you will fall to the level of your training.
Here are some interesting and practical websites that focus on crime readiness and criminal psychology. The war against crime in your neighborhood relies on you being able to think realistic about what is happening to you and what you can do to avoid the dumb mistake you made that turned you down that road. Criminals pick certain people for a reason. Even in times I was justified, 99% of the time there was something I could have done differently.
These sites are fun, anyway. Check them Out.
Rate Your Risk
Who is Robbing You (Marc MacYoung's Site)
These sites are fun, anyway. Check them Out.
Rate Your Risk
Who is Robbing You (Marc MacYoung's Site)
Glad to hear you're allright. Look at it this way. Someday those poor guys/gals/kids will pick on the wrong person and might not come out the other end allright. Pray they see the error of thier ways and quit thier shit before they get hurt or hurt someone else.
I tend to be equally suspicious of all people. It can be a scary would out there no matter where you live. So know your rights and do what you think is best. Follow some of the sage advice above and you should do just fine.
I carry a big ass pocket knife more for utility than for protection, but it will absolutely serve both jobs well. Living in Texas myself me and my wife should be proud gun owners here in the next couple of years. It's more in the back of our minds at the moment, but definately something we plan on doing.
I tend to be equally suspicious of all people. It can be a scary would out there no matter where you live. So know your rights and do what you think is best. Follow some of the sage advice above and you should do just fine.
I carry a big ass pocket knife more for utility than for protection, but it will absolutely serve both jobs well. Living in Texas myself me and my wife should be proud gun owners here in the next couple of years. It's more in the back of our minds at the moment, but definately something we plan on doing.
Where do you live, Spartan? I'm in North Texas and I love guns and gun shopping. I can tell you where to get a deal or even training, CHL etc. if that's what you're looking for. If you're close enough we can have a bowl and talk about things that go bang.
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