Parker 189 or a Dunhill 120 ??

[Ziggywm]

I have a "Parker Golden Bark" marked 4 in circle (a Dunhill size #) and a shape #189. I've owned it since 74 - purchased it second hand from a man who came into Diebel's Pipe Shop where I worked. I remember the man as an elderly Englishman, a very distinguish looking survivor of WW1 (I enjoyed talking to him). Now I know Parker is a Dunhill second. This one probably qualified due to the pits in the signature area on the bottom. Otherwise the pipe has a superb blast. It also smokes like a Dunhill, very sweet. Here is my question for the Dunhill/Parker afficnados out there: Was this pipe going to be a Dunhill #120 until the sand pits relegated it to second status? The more I've looked at pictures of the old 120s with their sweeping S shaped curve the more I am convinced. I have some Barling bents and an Astley (probably made for them by Dunhill) that comes close, but have never come across another like it. Given the age if its original owner - in his 80s at the time - the pipe could date to the 20s. Then again I'm not certain when Dunhill started the Parker line. So, if there is a Parker expert out there I'd appreciate anything you can share.

 

[dmcmtk]

I don't think I have any answers to your questions, but it's a lovely pipe! Here's one for you, only marked Made in London England bought back in 2014. It's a very well made pipe and stem, with detail like a very carefully funneled tenon.




and a Dunhill 120 F/T,

 

[lightmybriar]

Dunhill didn’t start the circled group number until the fifties...not saying Parker wouldn’t have used it before then, but I would think that Dunhill might have began that practice? I do think you’re right, though...I bet that was intended to be a 120. Is it large? 120s were usually about 6x2.

 

[mso489]

I'm skeptical of Parker as a Dunhill second, if you define seconds as passing a partially completed stummel across the hall to have it finished as a Parker. Dunhill, now White Spot, owns Parker, and Hardcastle, but I don't think partially finished products go from one brand to the other. In order to sustain their exalted prices, I would guess the Dunhill line sends any slightly off items directly to the crusher. Meanwhile, Parker makes good, durable, smokable pipes from scratch and sells them at moderate prices. As to what may have happened in the past, probably everything you could think of, and maybe some off Dunhills became Parkers, but I suspect it was long ago and not many. I was sold a Britannia with a flourish about it being a Dunhill second, but I didn't believe it, but liked and bought the pipe anyway, and it's great after about 30 years. Likewise my Parker cherrywood briar poker is a good cooker.

 

[Ziggywm]

Dunhill didn’t start the circled group number until the fifties...not saying Parker wouldn’t have used it before then, but I would think that Dunhill might have began that practice? I do think you’re right, though...I bet that was intended to be a 120. Is it large? 120s were usually about 6x2.

6 x 2 1/4. Also, the pipe is devoid of patient & any dating numbers. I should have asked the old Brit more questions. When you are young you're clueless. I just knew I loved the sweep. You know, Michaelangelo when he painted the Cisteen Chapel of God touching Adam, it forms an S shaped curve. He knew the eye loved it.

 

[Ziggywm]

I'm skeptical of Parker as a Dunhill second, if you define seconds as passing a partially completed stummel across the hall to have it finished as a Parker. Dunhill, now White Spot, owns Parker, and Hardcastle, but I don't think partially finished products go from one brand to the other. In order to sustain their exalted prices, I would guess the Dunhill line sends any slightly off items directly to the crusher. Meanwhile, Parker makes good, durable, smokable pipes from scratch and sells them at moderate prices. As to what may have happened in the past, probably everything you could think of, and maybe some off Dunhills became Parkers, but I suspect it was long ago and not many. I was sold a Britannia with a flourish about it being a Dunhill second, but I didn't believe it, but liked and bought the pipe anyway, and it's great after about 30 years. Likewise my Parker cherrywood briar poker is a good cooker.

With regard to long ago, the "curtain of history" is brutal - just can't say. However, you can see where the signature goes they couldn't get a clean imprint due to the sand pits. I can see them going in boxes to their second factories, especially when times were tough and briar harder to get, especially during times of war and Dunhill's obsession with quality. Just a thought.

 

[Ziggywm]

I don't think I have any answers to your questions, but it's a lovely pipe! Here's one for you, only marked Made in London England bought back in 2014. It's a very well made pipe and stem, with detail like a very carefully funneled tenon.


View attachment 60128View attachment 60129

and a Dunhill 120 F/T,

View attachment 60130

Wow!! The tanshell looks like a copy of mine. And your #120 - hard to see any difference. Beautiful pipes.

 

[lightmybriar]

The S curve is a true thing of beauty, and is why I’m so in love with the LC shape. 120 is like a more muscular LC, and they’re both excellent.

 

[lightmybriar]

Here’s a quick shot of my 1950 LC!

 

[Ziggywm]

View attachment 60178
Here’s a quick shot of my 1950 LC!

Beautiful. A classic. Just look at that blast. I am guessing a beautiful smoker.

 

[lightmybriar]

Beautiful. A classic. Just look at that blast. I am guessing a beautiful smoker.

Yes it is excellent all around, a real treasure!