Outsniping the (eBay) Snipers!

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rmbittner

Lifer
Dec 12, 2012
2,759
2,024
As I tell my friends that have collectibles that want to sell on ebay, when they tell me this is worth XX dollars, "it is only worth what the market will bear". The reverse of that of course, if your piece that you bid on went for more than you are willing to pay, then it was worth over market, at least yours. You can't complain about not winning when you didn't put your max amount AND if you did put your max, then it went for over your market price. If you would pay $5 over your max bid while sniping, then you should have upped your max bid by $5 and stick to it. Otherwise you end up paying more than market price, as said, at least your market price. I think it is a very fair way of auction.
I do agree. But the problem we have as pipe buyers is that it's one thing to know what we'd be comfortable paying for a pipe; it's something else entirely to have a strong sense of what a given pipe is actually worth. Many other collectibles have price guides that give you a good general sense of current value. (I've bought a number of guitars on eBay and relied heavily on such a guide to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid.) I have never seen such a thing where pipes are concerned, so it feels like more of a shot in the dark. Yes, you can look at other recent sales of similar items. But that's not foolproof. On eBay, I've sold a 2oz. tin of Raven's Wing for $26.00 one week (far below what most Pease Syrian blends are going for), only to sell another one for $70 two weeks later.
Knowing a pipe's true worth -- regardless of whether anyone is willing to pay that or not -- requires a deep knowledge of the maker, an appreciation of at least the recent history of pipe smoking, and I'm guessing a range of other information as well. Here's an example: You might see an Italian pipe marked "Sergio" and think, "Well, that's a nice pipe. I'd probably pay $60 for that." To you, it's worth $60, based on what you know. But what if you knew that the "Sergio" brand was used for only three months in 1980, on pipes made in Guiseppe Ascorti's factory by craftsmen trained in the Caminetto factory? Knowing how rare the craftsmanship and how few the number, that pipe might actually be worth $600 to you now.
It isn't hard to do such research or gain the knowledge required. But it does take a lot of time and effort.
Bob

 

pipeinhand

Lifer
Sep 23, 2011
1,198
0
Virginia
Bob, while I agree with the facts you give, I think my point has been missed. If you are willing to pay $60 for a pipe, a decision you made before you put in your bid as a max bid, you cannot complain because someone bought it for $65 after being sniped. If you wanted it that bad, you should have max bid at $65 or more. What I am really saying is market will always make a max price, no matter what one thinks is a fair price. I wholeheartedly agree that one must do their homework before they bid, but keep in mind what you know and feel before you bid and stick to your belief. :puffy:

 

wildcat

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 1, 2012
682
1
Ebay needs to extend automatically any auctions that are sniped like briarbid does so that they stop having lost revenue fom this devious way to bid. Make the auction last longer every time a bid goes through.
So if I walk into an auction house at the second bang of the gavel, see that I like the item, raise the bid and the last bidder was at his max bid, doesn't rebid and I win... I'm devious? No. Extending the auctions is a bad idea. If I placed my max bid and am out bid one day or one second before close, it's all the same. If I place my max bid near the end of the auction and win, well... I win. Nana-nana-poo-poo.

 

yadan

Can't Leave
Dec 23, 2012
336
1
Central Galilee, Israel
"So if I walk into an auction house at the second bang of the gavel, see that I like the item, raise the bid and the last bidder was at his max bid, doesn't rebid and I win... I'm devious? No. Extending the auctions is a bad idea. If I placed my max bid and am out bid one day or one second before close, it's all the same. If I place my max bid near the end of the auction and win, well... I win. Nana-nana-poo-"
That's right - there's nothing illegal, devious or immoral about sniping, if the site provides for it; a person who bids under these conditions is, for all intent and purpose, demonstrating his agreement and must play by the rules of the game. If a sniper employs research, psychology and technology to outdo other bidders, then the other bidders have to build a better mousetrap for this mouse. :puffy:

 

sparroa

Lifer
Dec 8, 2010
1,466
4
eBay has the system perfected as far as I am concerned - no need to change it.
Other sites can and should do things a different way if they are so inclined...
I just think that buyers get the raw end of the deal when the auctions are extended into perpetuity.
It will always result in higher prices unless nobody else is interested in the item in question.
To safeguard themselves, sellers can always get a reserve and put their item up for a long time - if they don't get their desired price by then, then it is too high for the market to bear.
Sniping isn't "wrong" it is just one way to play the game - often the best way...

 
Aug 1, 2012
4,887
5,710
USA
I detailed the way I do auctions in an earlier thread so here's a few thoughts.
Sniping services are ok, I just prefer to do my own dirty work. Sure I might have had a chance at a pre-transition Barling (in great shape) that went for less than $40 while I was at work but that chance will come again, or I'll get a better one, and that's part of the fun for me.
As for "put in your max and walk away", the minor problem is that unless you do that in the final seconds, have a fairly high max or go through a sniper, somebody will almost always outbid you by $1 or so. Would you have bid $1 more? Sure, but then they will still up it by $1 and so on.
In the end, it's just stuff and not worth getting worked up over. If it's not at least a bit fun, it's not worth it.
Speaking of "not fun" a seller mentioned earlier is not recommended my this puffer as they were not honest and retaliated when called on it.

 
Aug 1, 2012
4,887
5,710
USA
Sniping to me is like "camping" in a FPS game. It works great and it's not wrong but still makes me feel a tiny bit dirty.

 

mirain

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 5, 2011
193
9
Dealing on eBay is like any other negotiation...you've got to be willing to walk away. Additionally, I've found that I have to feel comfortable with my max bid. That way I don't feel bad if I loose a bid. There's always another wonderful pipe a few days away.

 

yadan

Can't Leave
Dec 23, 2012
336
1
Central Galilee, Israel
"But the problem we have as pipe buyers is that it's one thing to know what we'd be comfortable paying for a pipe; it's something else entirely to have a strong sense of what a given pipe is actually worth."
What a pipe, or anything else - like stocks, an apartment or a car - is worth, is what the individual buyer is willing (or unwilling) to pay for it. Period. The 'actual worth' of an item is really a mythical consensus, supported by the pschology of the masses, generally initated by a very small group or even a single so-called 'expert.' I am sure that my winning bid on the Kirsten, $160.00, would be considered by many as too high a price to pay for this kind of pipe, whereas for me, it was more than worthwhile.
"As for "put in your max and walk away", the minor problem is that unless you do that in the final seconds, have a fairly high max or go through a sniper, somebody will almost always outbid you by $1 or so."
Exactly my experience; I was able to succeed in outsniping because I had kept on eye on things up till the last 10 seconds so that I could up my max bid.

 

trailspike48

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 15, 2013
767
2
I've picked up some pipes on ebay lately, and it's not the snipping that is an issue for me. Twice I've ended up with cracked bowls and even if the seller takes the item back I'm out the shipping cost for both directions. However I've also picked up a few cherry deals.

 

hugo131

Lurker
Jun 1, 2009
2
0
And here is one of many out there, those pesky mice.
http://www.jbidwatcher.com/
That is a pretty well known and well regarded software, but it is desktop-based. I would go with a web-based service such as hidbid.com (BidBall.com, gixen.com) to take your PC out of the equation.
As far as sniping and eBay bidding in general goes, make sure you're eligible to bid on an item before scheduling a snipe (or doing it manually), so that your bid will be accepted. As long as you live in a country that the seller ships to, you don't have many (or any, I think as little as two within the past six months can get you blocked) unpaid strikes lately, and you have enough positive feedback, you should be ok. If you have a problem with one of those things, you could contact the seller and ask them to accept your bid, as long as you know early enough.
A couple benefits of sniping not often mentioned:
1. Sniping is actually a way of combatting shill bidding - when the seller or his buddy bids on the item until they're the high bid, and know your max, then retract their bid, and use yet another account to bid on the item, bidding just below your max. You don't give the shiller time to retract their bid in order to leave you as the high bidder, close to your max. You can't do much about a shill bidder letting their bid ride to the end of the auction, if it just raises but doesn't exceed yours.
Also, look out for 2nd chance offers, as they would be a reason for the shiller to let their shill bid ride, you may want to decline any and look for a different seller with the same item. Unless of course, the price seems ok with you, even though possible artificially jacked up.
2. You can just cancel a snipe with as little as five minutes left (I guess depending on which service or software you use)

in an auction, if you change your mind about bidding on an item, and your bid won't be placed. If you place a bid on ebay and then retract it (not a seller's or ebay's favorite thing), you can be blocked from bidding on other auctions after doing this a few times, not sure what that # is.

 

yadan

Can't Leave
Dec 23, 2012
336
1
Central Galilee, Israel
" My solution to that, as I've explained on another topic, was to simply wait until the last 20 seconds of the auction, then slap up a bid of $999 and walk away until it's ended. Only backfired on me once, and not so bad I shed tears."
...and my answer to you on that topic was that in doing this, you run the risk of someone doing the same thing - only with a slightly lower bid which will obligate you to pay the $999!
"here is one of many out there, those pesky mice.

http://www.jbidwatcher.com/

That is a pretty well known and well regarded software, but it is desktop-based. I would go with a web-based service such as hidbid.com (BidBall.com, gixen.com) to take your PC out of the equation."
As I pointed out on another thread, a sniping site will be useless if, in the last minute of the bidding, someone bids above your programmed max bid; so if you're determined to win the auction, you must keep an eye on things up till the end.
" Dealing on eBay is like any other negotiation...you've got to be willing to walk away. Additionally, I've found that I have to feel comfortable with my max bid. That way I don't feel bad if I loose a bid. There's always another wonderful pipe a few days away."
Not quite! If the auctioned item is a pipe no longer in production, in reasonably good condition and the bidding is in a range you can live with, then it is extremely difficult to just 'walk away.'

 

rmbittner

Lifer
Dec 12, 2012
2,759
2,024
yadan wrote:
What a pipe, or anything else - like stocks, an apartment or a car - is worth, is what the individual buyer is willing (or unwilling) to pay for it. Period. The 'actual worth' of an item is really a mythical consensus,
I get what you mean, but I can't put that fine a point on it. Some factors have nothing to do with the marketplace: for example, the cost of materials and the number of hours involved in creation. Those don't change as a result of an item's later collectibility (or lack of it) or the whims of the marketplace. And that's why I think education is particularly important to understand the true value of an item. That's not to say something, like your Kirsten, won't be even more valuable to you than that. But if it cost, say, $100 to produce 20 years ago, then someone would simply be wrong to say it's not worth at least $100 today. It might not be worth it to them, but that's beside the point.
Just my take on it, though.

 

yadan

Can't Leave
Dec 23, 2012
336
1
Central Galilee, Israel
"Some factors have nothing to do with the marketplace: for example, the cost of materials and the number of hours involved in creation. Those don't change as a result of an item's later collectibility (or lack of it) or the whims of the marketplace. And that's why I think education is particularly important to understand the true value of an item. That's not to say something, like your Kirsten, won't be even more valuable to you than that. But if it cost, say, $100 to produce 20 years ago, then someone would simply be wrong to say it's not worth at least $100 today. It might not be worth it to them, but that's beside the point."
I agree with this, but I really can't afford to be a collector to any significant extent, and as far as pipes are concerned, I'd never purchase one that I wouldn't smoke.
Years ago, I purchased original lithographs by Picasso, Dali and Chagall. For many years, I derived great satisfaction just by knowing that these were originals in my possession, but that wore off a while ago. Today, I would just as soon replace them with some nice posters, so my wife and I have decided to have them appraised and sell them - to folks who undoubtedly will get the same pleasure from them that I used to get.
Likewise, one of my sons has a collection of old comics worth - in the marketplace - many thousands of dollars - but I wouldn't spend one dollar for the entire collection because it has no value to me personally.

 

gmwolford

Lifer
Jul 26, 2012
1,355
5
WV, USA
After this thread I started watching more last minutes of auctions. I've noticed that most of the snipers hit shoot at 15 seconds or less, really at 3-8 seconds. Anyway, I watched this one jump from $30 to the ending price but missed the bid that shot it up from $30
Diptic_zpsfc1e211c.jpg

I just thought you all might enjoy seeing that. I, incidentally, didn't come close to winning this beauty.

 

zonomo

Lifer
Nov 24, 2012
1,584
5
hey yadan - you sniped me! Ha ha. Congrats on that pipe. I put my bid within 20 seconds but was outbid immediately by you since my bid was next highest to what actually won. Which one did you win? The straight or bent? I bid on both but walked away empty handed. I'm glad you got it though. Very nice pipe. :clap:

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
63
I enter my price at 15 seconds and confirm at 8, I don't trust my ISP to deliver after that point.
+1
Funny, I do the exact same thing. Hope we don't bid on the the same pipe Al.

 

bobby46

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 11, 2012
254
0
Interesting point-counterpoint thread.

I'm curious how Ebay handles a flood of literally last-second bids. Particularly, since several are posted by the same sniping software, and when more than one highest bid amount is identical.

 
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