Oppressive FDA Regulations
- Thread starter cwarmouth
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The links to the FDA rulings are the usual convoluted government mumbo-jumbo. The very short story is that no new blends are allowed after around 8/8/16. The final date for full compliance has been moved to 2021, giving the industry an additional 4 years to fall in line.
"new" blends hitting the market are either based on predicate tobaccos already approved or, more commonly, renamed blends that already exist.
Blends in the market prior to February 2006 are grandfathered.
"new" blends hitting the market are either based on predicate tobaccos already approved or, more commonly, renamed blends that already exist.
Blends in the market prior to February 2006 are grandfathered.
Destroys the smaller vaping and pipe tobacco blenders and allows Big Tobacco to move in and conquer all.
Yep, the law was written by the cigarette companies, the same as they did chewing tobacco. Now Camel and Winston owns the entireity of chew and snuff sold now. Follow the money..
Since it requires deep-deep pockets to develop and market new blends, it throws the game to the big boys. The smaller outfits, which includes some fairly large outfits by pipe tobacco blending standards, just can't participate. I haven't studied the regulatory twaddle, but I think it also includes some intrusive language excluding distribution of samples at pipe shops and pipe shows. All this is broad-brush and ham-handed, but when the dust clears, the big tobacco companies will do fine and the others will have no new blends to offer and other impediments. The pretext is improving public health.
I think the B&M's would have the same problem as small blenders, and I doubt they could sell "house brand" named blends without spending vast sums (they can't). My local independent pipe shop proprietor feels hung out to dry, since he feels the pressure of all these impending regulations but is not getting any updated signals on what he can and can't do. The stress alone may drive a lot of the older shop owners into retirement. It takes the fun out of what has long been an enjoyable business for many. My local person is an accomplished pipe person, knowledgeable and a good communicator, running his shop since the seventies. So far, hanging on.
Blends available on and before February 15th 2007 are "grandfathered" in, for now, provided that they haven't left the market before August 8th 2016.
Blends introduced into the market after February 15th 2007 but prior to August 8th 2016 needed to go through a very expensive FDA Deeming process to remain on the market after August 8th 2018, or in some cases August 8th 2019. This compliance period was recently extended, as were some of the deadlines for registering blends, until August 8th 2021.
Blends created after August 8th 2016 needed to go through the very expensive FDA Deeming process BEFORE they could go on the market, hence no new blends being introduced after this date.
Blends appearing after the August 8th 2016 cutoff needed to have been around in some fashion prior to that date. A workaround was to record the sale or an order for these blends prior to the August 8th 2016 cutoff so that there would be a paper trail.
The language in which this Deeming Rule is written resembles Medieval Neo Bulgarian. It is kept deliberately vague so that the FDA can "interpret" its exact meaning when the inevitable lawsuits happen.
The law was custom made to create a virtual monopoly for Big Tobacco and to wipe out the vaping business. The affect on pipe tobacco was collateral damage.
Blends introduced into the market after February 15th 2007 but prior to August 8th 2016 needed to go through a very expensive FDA Deeming process to remain on the market after August 8th 2018, or in some cases August 8th 2019. This compliance period was recently extended, as were some of the deadlines for registering blends, until August 8th 2021.
Blends created after August 8th 2016 needed to go through the very expensive FDA Deeming process BEFORE they could go on the market, hence no new blends being introduced after this date.
Blends appearing after the August 8th 2016 cutoff needed to have been around in some fashion prior to that date. A workaround was to record the sale or an order for these blends prior to the August 8th 2016 cutoff so that there would be a paper trail.
The language in which this Deeming Rule is written resembles Medieval Neo Bulgarian. It is kept deliberately vague so that the FDA can "interpret" its exact meaning when the inevitable lawsuits happen.
The law was custom made to create a virtual monopoly for Big Tobacco and to wipe out the vaping business. The affect on pipe tobacco was collateral damage.
So, the stuff that is grandfathered, is it subject to new taxes or regulations that will make it scarce or more expensive?
I've heard tell of--what I think were called--"user fees" that are to be paid quarterly by the tobacco producers based in part on the amount of tobacco they sell.
I haven't seen what the dollar figure for these fees will be, and it's not clear to me whether the pre-deeming-date tobaccos are subject to them.
I've heard tell of--what I think were called--"user fees" that are to be paid quarterly by the tobacco producers based in part on the amount of tobacco they sell.
I haven't seen what the dollar figure for these fees will be, and it's not clear to me whether the pre-deeming-date tobaccos are subject to them.
I heard through Chip at smokingpipes customer service that lawsuits would be heard now, fall 2017, contesting the FDA regulation and that for now, the company didn't feel there was a reason to pronounce their doom. Rick Newcombe also wrote an article sometime earlier this year about FDA which I loved as the content was stated without any emotion, which had I wrote it, would not have been the case.
In short, four more years to buy tobacco freely, unless a favorable ruling is obtained in court. But with Big Tobacco money in play, that would seem unlikely.
In short, four more years to buy tobacco freely, unless a favorable ruling is obtained in court. But with Big Tobacco money in play, that would seem unlikely.
No. The FDA doesn't levy taxes, Congress does, and taxation isn't part of the Deeming rules. Nor is there any language regarding making "grandfathered" blends less available or more expensive, though repackaging costs will probably be passed on to consumers. Big Tobacco helped design these regs. Pipe tobacco is collateral damage.
Most of these are repackaged and/or renamed bulk made by one of several larger producers. For a B&M to continue to make custom blends, they would have to comply with regulations required of a tobacco manufacturer. Thus, B&M's will likely cease to make and distribute custom blends because of the regulatory hurdles they would have to make.
It may be worth noting that former Speaker of the House John Boehner now sits on the Board of Reynolds American Tobacco co.
I guess C&D's huge catalog doesn't seem so crazy now, if they can rename and release previously produced stuff.
An idea came to me last night.
There are all sorts of regulations restricting the sale of raw (unpasteurized) milk in the US. To get arround this, crunchy folks go in on co-ops in which they buy a "share" of a milkcow and then pay the farmer monthly to house, feed, tend, and milk the cow. Because they own the cow, and because the farmer is something like a contractor or an employee, there is no sale of milk, and thus this arrangement doesn't fall under any of the restrictions. (You can pretty much do whatever you want with the milk from your own cow, as long as you don't sell it.)
Could small blenders offer a service like this after the new regulations go into effect? So, the smoker (or a group of smokers--I'm assuming a blender isn't going to be interested in blending a few oz at a time) buys the whole leaf tobacco (which is pretty much unregulated AND untaxed). They then contract with the blender and hire him to blend the tobacco. The blender blends their tobacco for them and mails the owners of the tobacco the final product. The owners of the tobacco would never need to touch the stuff before it was finished; the whole leaf could be shipped directly to the blender. In fact the blender could probably sell the whole leaf tobacco to them directly from his own inventory.
Not only would this be a possible way to get around the new FDA regs, but it would also be a way to escape the federal tobacco taxes.
Does anyone know if this would be viable? Or are the new regulations written in a way that would close this loophole?
Some of the whole leaf retailers do something like this already, selling "blends" of whole leaf. Is there any reason I couldn't buy one of those kits, and have my tobacco shipped to someone who I have hired to strip the vein, case, and cut it?
There are all sorts of regulations restricting the sale of raw (unpasteurized) milk in the US. To get arround this, crunchy folks go in on co-ops in which they buy a "share" of a milkcow and then pay the farmer monthly to house, feed, tend, and milk the cow. Because they own the cow, and because the farmer is something like a contractor or an employee, there is no sale of milk, and thus this arrangement doesn't fall under any of the restrictions. (You can pretty much do whatever you want with the milk from your own cow, as long as you don't sell it.)
Could small blenders offer a service like this after the new regulations go into effect? So, the smoker (or a group of smokers--I'm assuming a blender isn't going to be interested in blending a few oz at a time) buys the whole leaf tobacco (which is pretty much unregulated AND untaxed). They then contract with the blender and hire him to blend the tobacco. The blender blends their tobacco for them and mails the owners of the tobacco the final product. The owners of the tobacco would never need to touch the stuff before it was finished; the whole leaf could be shipped directly to the blender. In fact the blender could probably sell the whole leaf tobacco to them directly from his own inventory.
Not only would this be a possible way to get around the new FDA regs, but it would also be a way to escape the federal tobacco taxes.
Does anyone know if this would be viable? Or are the new regulations written in a way that would close this loophole?
Some of the whole leaf retailers do something like this already, selling "blends" of whole leaf. Is there any reason I couldn't buy one of those kits, and have my tobacco shipped to someone who I have hired to strip the vein, case, and cut it?
I think that it's a damned clever idea. You would need enough critical mass to make creating new blends as well as keeping endangered blends profitable, or at least not unprofitable. The other issue is that a lot of pipe smokers are cheapskates and others are on very limited budgets, so getting them to put up the money to buy a share of a blender's business might be difficult to achieve. But in theory, I don't see why that wouldn't be possible. By the way, these Rules apply to finished products only. You can buy all the components you want. So another way would be to provide recipes for free and sell ingredients.
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