Not Sure What I Don’t Like

[Jakers]

Good morning Pipe friends. Having a little trouble discerning what I don’t like about three tobaccos; I think they’re Virginia heavy from the descriptions, but I’m not 100%. Most of these came as part of a sampler. They feel like they smoke a little “rougher” than I’d like. Hoping I can describe them in a manner that makes sense.

The three I don’t like are Orlick Golden Sliced flake, John Cotton Double Pressed Virginia, and Borkum Riff (the bourbon whiskey aromatic).

I adore EMP & Nightcap (I also have Sutliff’s AM Pipe from Match for EMP); and the aromatics I like are Cult Blood Moon, CAO Eileen Irish Crème & White Chocolate Truffle, and Captain Black (original and cherry).

Is it the Virginia heavy blends I’m not liking or is there something else Orlick, JC, and Borkum have in common? Thanks!

 

[TakeThisCobAndStuffIt]

Hard to know what you dont like. Those three do have being Virginias in common. They are also all pretty mild smokes. However, Virginia does seem to be a bit "sharper" than the Aros and Latakia blends you mention. Recommend that you dry the OGS and smoke it real slow. If it still doesn't suit you then you know. Same thing with the others. May end up being that you don't care for Virginias much or may be some learning pains. Do you otherwise enjoy their flavors?

 

[Remorc]

It may be helpful to throw them in mason jars and let them age for a year or two. Those rough edges tend to mellow out with age.

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

I suspect that you are used to the bold Latakia flavors found in English blends you note and as such are having a tough time enjoying the more subtle flavors of a Virginia/vaper blend. You’ll need to slow your cadence down and focus on picking up those notes you’re missing and give it some time. It might click or it might not.

As for Borkum Riff, that’s a typical drug store aromatic that’s nothing but hot air and disappointment. Set that one aside until you’re ready to venture more into an aromatic blend that takes some skill to enjoy.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Sounds like you just don't like straight Virginias and you do like blends with Latakia.
Not a thing wrong with that. Taste is subjective and we all enjoy different things.
I love Virginias and you don't. You love Latakia and I don't. Neither of us are wrong, it's just what we like. The world would be a hell of a boring place if we all liked the same things.

 

[anotherbob]

Good morning Pipe friends. Having a little trouble discerning what I don’t like about three tobaccos; I think they’re Virginia heavy from the descriptions, but I’m not 100%. Most of these came as part of a sampler. They feel like they smoke a little “rougher” than I’d like. Hoping I can describe them in a manner that makes sense.

The three I don’t like are Orlick Golden Sliced flake, John Cotton Double Pressed Virginia, and Borkum Riff (the bourbon whiskey aromatic).

I adore EMP & Nightcap (I also have Sutliff’s AM Pipe from Match for EMP); and the aromatics I like are Cult Blood Moon, CAO Eileen Irish Crème & White Chocolate Truffle, and Captain Black (original and cherry).

Is it the Virginia heavy blends I’m not liking or is there something else Orlick, JC, and Borkum have in common? Thanks!

All of those are going to be best when smoked in a manner that can be described as cautious. To me that's the one thing all three of them have in common. They get a little ashy if smoked as fast or hard as is normally great with a pipe tobacco.
The ones you like that I've tried are a little more forgiving of things like packing and less careful smoking.
Just one jerks opinion though.

 

[The Libertine]

All of those are going to be best when smoked in a manner that can be described as cautious. To me that's the one thing all three of them have in common. They get a little ashy if smoked as fast or hard as is normally great with a pipe tobacco.
The ones you like that I've tried are a little more forgiving of things like packing and less careful smoking.
Just one jerks opinion though.

Make that 2 jerks. Virginia's are not super friendly to fast smokers. They do tend to have that sharper citrus bite to them.

 

[anotherbob]

Make that 2 jerks. Virginia's are not super friendly to fast smokers. They do tend to have that sharper citrus bite to them.

and get the reaction of I am smoking slowly and gently as is possible. I know I reacted that way at first.

 

[The Libertine]

and get the reaction of I am smoking slowly and gently as is possible. I know I reacted that way at first.

The "what the hell? I'm smoking so slow and my bowls is looking like a cherry." reaction.

 

[anotherbob]

The "what the hell? I'm smoking so slow and my bowls is looking like a cherry." reaction.

Yeah that one. Which we've all probably been there. Though I am not sure if we're talking pipes or bedroom hijinks at the moment.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I started with straight Virginias, and I am glad that I did, because it made pulling flavors out of other blends much easier. But, I can totally understand if someone doesn't like Virginias. That is ok. Luckily for you there are many other type of blends out there. There are also many other type of Virginias.
For me, it's about the pleasure of perusing the choices. It's about the search more than the goal. Enjoy yourself as you search.
I don't think I ever found one blend that blew my mind as being the best ever. But, I enjoyed looking.

 

[Sig]

Well, dare I say, you are wrong!

Just kidding, gosh......

I personally do not care for the BR, but the John Cotton and OGS are favorites of mine.
It could be the Virginia, but more likely it could be the topping.
For instance......
MacBaren makes several blends with basically the same component tobaccos, with the main difference being the topping flavor.
For instance.....
Symphony and Golden Extra are both Burley blends with a lesser amount of Virginia. The main difference is how and what toppings are added. In the end, they taste completely different.
The same can be said about Virginia #1 and Virginia Flake from MacBaren.
Ive heard people say the VA#1 is just the VA Flake that fell apart. Well, those people haven't tasted them maybe.
Virginia #1 is my favorite all time blend. Virginia Flake is similar, but vastly different.....if that makes sense.
This goes for most other companies as well. They make several 100% Virginia blends, with tobacco from the same bale, but they taste very different.
From aging, fermenting, stoving, fire cured, air cured, casings, toppings......it might not be the component tobacco you don't like, it might be the process of which it's made.

 

[Brad H]

As Sig said above /\ /\ /\ /\ Mac Baren Golden Extra is a great place to start. You can still find some tins left on sites or even bulk.

You don't know what you don't like until you try things.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This goes for most other companies as well. They make several 100% Virginia blends, with tobacco from the same bale, but they taste very different.

There are about twelve different varieties of what we call Virginias. The ag industry calls them brightleaf varietals. But, there are also dozens of varietals in the heirloom areas. I know that several tobacco processors used specialize heirloom varieties sometimes. So, if a label on a tin says Virginias, what does that mean? It could be one of many different tasting Virginias. White burley as well... which exact seedstock? etc... The problem is that there is a jargon problem going from the ag side, the processor side, and then the marketing side of pipe tobaccos. The marketing copy on the side of tins is talking really vaguely about what is inside the tin. Also, not always is every single type of leaf used. For example, if it just says Virginia, it most likely also has a bit of burley in there. in fact, most virginias also have have some burley to round out the taste. It is just that the copy on the side of teh tin is just to give you an idea of what to expect from a blend. It is by no means a contract of any sorts... mainly because inside the industry before it gets to the blender... there is no such thing as a Virginia. Virginia is a marketing term. So is burley for that matter.
So when a tin says Burly Virginias and latakia, there are hundreds of different blends that can be made from these. Because there are so many seedstock differences between these genres.

Add in curing differences and treatment of the leaf like cavendish, pressing, etc... there are millions of different possibilities.

Also, there is no such seed as just a Virginia seed. However, VA25 is a brightleaf varietal that is grown extensively for the cigarette industry, which is used also in pipe tobaccos, but there are also many other varietals. My favorite to grow is Cherry Red seed stock.

 

[FLDRD]

Simply sounds like a "new" palate issue to me.
You like the easy flavors and don't yet tease out those that are subtle.
Give it a year or so and likely your likes and dislikes will be dramatically improved, er... different.

 

[Christos D. Tsatsaronis]

I fully agree with you regarding Borkum Riff Bourbon and I fully disagree regarding Orlic Golden Sliced... As a good man stated a few posts above, our "thing" is highly subjective...

 

[Brad H]

A thing to keep in mind. The more you smoke over time, your tongue will toughen over time.

 

[BingBong]

Don't write off the Orlik too soon, it's part of becoming a shrewd judge. All jest aside, it's an easy lightweight if you don't push it too hard, a fine summer smoke.

 

[Sig]

There are about twelve different varieties of what we call Virginias. The ag industry calls them brightleaf varietals. But, there are also dozens of varietals in the heirloom areas. I know that several tobacco processors used specialize heirloom varieties sometimes. So, if a label on a tin says Virginias, what does that mean? It could be one of many different tasting Virginias. White burley as well... which exact seedstock? etc... The problem is that there is a jargon problem going from the ag side, the processor side, and then the marketing side of pipe tobaccos. The marketing copy on the side of tins is talking really vaguely about what is inside the tin. Also, not always is every single type of leaf used. For example, if it just says Virginia, it most likely also has a bit of burley in there. in fact, most virginias also have have some burley to round out the taste. It is just that the copy on the side of teh tin is just to give you an idea of what to expect from a blend. It is by no means a contract of any sorts... mainly because inside the industry before it gets to the blender... there is no such thing as a Virginia. Virginia is a marketing term. So is burley for that matter.
So when a tin says Burly Virginias and latakia, there are hundreds of different blends that can be made from these. Because there are so many seedstock differences between these genres.

Add in curing differences and treatment of the leaf like cavendish, pressing, etc... there are millions of different possibilities.

Also, there is no such seed as just a Virginia seed. However, VA25 is a brightleaf varietal that is grown extensively for the cigarette industry, which is used also in pipe tobaccos, but there are also many other varietals. My favorite to grow is Cherry Red seed stock.

And this is why they case their tobacco and why a blend tastes the same year to year.
I have blends from 25 years ago that are indistinguishable from 15 year old, 10 year old and 5 year old of the same blend.
Although there isn't technically a "Virginia" tobacco seed, you absolutely can buy Virginia tobacco seeds. It's kinda like a Labradoodle, technically there is no such thing, but you can buy one. It is all Nicotina Tabacum, that was found to be lighter tasting and less harsh when grown around Virginia than tobacco grown other places. Virginia is named from where it's grown, in and near Virginia. There are hundreds of varieties, but many are known to grow well and have optimum flavor and are sold as "Virginia" tobaccos, which again, are lighter, brighter and less harsh than the same varieties grown in Africa, South America and the Caribbean.
My point to the OP was that maybe he isn't opposed to the tobacco, as much as he is the process of which it was created. This is common in the pipe tobacco community. Tobacco ftom the exact same bale can be made to taste vastly different.....like I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[sardonicus87]

Sounds like you're a bit too green to really be saying what you don't like.

You just don't like that stuff now, and it could be due to an under-developed palate for pipe tobacco. Don't write them off, just put them away and come back to them later and keep trying new things.

Don't get in the habit of thinking you just don't like X type of leaf or X type of blend. Seen too many threads where someone says "been smoking forever, thought I hated ___ blends, avoided them forever, tried them again on a whim and wow, I've been missing out this whole time!".