Not On The Sidewalk Either
- Thread starter mlaug
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I understand that people dont want to have others smoking cigs in front their stores but really??? a law???? If you dont have a problem with people smoking then you wouldn't pass an ordinance banning it, now craploads of people can just get hit by cars because they're smoking in the friggin street! Gov thinks they are doing us a favor by slowly making smoking illeagal, but we know its not the healthiest thing ever, and we STILL CHOOSE to do it! it's the principle of the matter that bothers me! what are they taking next? my pillow? Might as well make mcdonalds illeagal too, its bad for you!!! :roll: oi vey
Yes, on a "by danger posed" argument hundreds of foods, thousands of air pollutants, and dozens of medicines would be banned long before smoking bit the bullet, but there it is and here we are, and that is what is happening.
I've never misunderstood the dangers of smoking, and I mean that both in that I know smoking (pipes, hookah, cigarettes or cigars. . .or in my case all of them) is bad for me and anyone else that does it. . . under SPECIFIC circumstances even those around us. . . but I also know the -level- of danger these lobbyist insist on is utter rubbish and furthermore personally believe that for all that these holier-than-though pigs say about the evils and self-serving devices of big tobacco goes doubly for them. . .. Especially when it comes down to the average pipe tobacco company, or the average tobacco farmer, or cigar-maker, or as was the case of the only R.J. Reynalds (Camel division) exec I ever met --- all of whom are only doing it for the love of tobacco, the love of work, the love of the sub-culture, and of course among it (as with any profession) the decent money to be made.
I don't imagine that tobacco execs are any better or worse than any other kind of executive of their pay-grade really, they found a field they loved, or had easy access to, and stuck with it. Some of them became all about the money, some of them don't, most are some sort of middle-ground, and none are any more 'evil' than any other man. That is to say, if there is one among them that is truly evil, that man wasn't turned evil because he was around tobacco, it was that he was already corrupt, and either money galvanized that, or he would have been evil no matter where he fell in life.
Point is. . .this is the U.S. for heaven's sake -- and as such I deserve to be well-informed of the make-up and affect of the articles I consume. . . and thereupon allowed to make my own decision as to whether I feel like doing so. I didn't listen to my own mother when she told me to quit and I'll be damned if I'll let this country play her part.
You know there was a time I really thought I'd never have cause to feel or speak this way about my country. A real shame kids have to grow up really. . ..
I've never misunderstood the dangers of smoking, and I mean that both in that I know smoking (pipes, hookah, cigarettes or cigars. . .or in my case all of them) is bad for me and anyone else that does it. . . under SPECIFIC circumstances even those around us. . . but I also know the -level- of danger these lobbyist insist on is utter rubbish and furthermore personally believe that for all that these holier-than-though pigs say about the evils and self-serving devices of big tobacco goes doubly for them. . .. Especially when it comes down to the average pipe tobacco company, or the average tobacco farmer, or cigar-maker, or as was the case of the only R.J. Reynalds (Camel division) exec I ever met --- all of whom are only doing it for the love of tobacco, the love of work, the love of the sub-culture, and of course among it (as with any profession) the decent money to be made.
I don't imagine that tobacco execs are any better or worse than any other kind of executive of their pay-grade really, they found a field they loved, or had easy access to, and stuck with it. Some of them became all about the money, some of them don't, most are some sort of middle-ground, and none are any more 'evil' than any other man. That is to say, if there is one among them that is truly evil, that man wasn't turned evil because he was around tobacco, it was that he was already corrupt, and either money galvanized that, or he would have been evil no matter where he fell in life.
Point is. . .this is the U.S. for heaven's sake -- and as such I deserve to be well-informed of the make-up and affect of the articles I consume. . . and thereupon allowed to make my own decision as to whether I feel like doing so. I didn't listen to my own mother when she told me to quit and I'll be damned if I'll let this country play her part.
You know there was a time I really thought I'd never have cause to feel or speak this way about my country. A real shame kids have to grow up really. . ..
Funny how the ACLU has been mostly silent on this issue. We're still pretty safe here in Pennsylvania........for now.
This is one of my favorite quotes and sums up nicely why all of these types of things happen and gain momentum.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
I'm old enough to remember when you could smoke just about anywhere -- except the public library, church and the intensive care unit.
The first time I smoked a cigarette was in the back of a city bus.
My childhood doctor smoked, in his offcie with patients. I went to a Catholic boys school and one of the priests smoked in class. Football coaches smoked on the sidelines during games.
Those days, like the 25-cent beer and the roar of an Oldsmobile V-8 engine, are long gone and nothing will bring them back.
Hey, you can't even light up in an Irish pub! American smokers are not alone. Smokers in many industrialized countries are facing a growing list of restrictions.
The last time I checked, only 20 to 25 percent of the adult U.S. population smoked and minority smokers' rights aren't a priority on anyone's political agenda.
We've become a convenient political target.
But I'm ever the optimist.
All of these anti-smoking curbs eventually will reach the point of diminishing returns because non-smokers will feel adequately protected and onerous regulations will be too costly and impractical to enforce. The public and the politicians will, at some point, lose interest.
Then we can smoke in peace -- as long as it's in our house, our backyard or maybe in the alley.
By the way, the ACLU has been one of the few independent legal groups to challenge some of the more outrageous smoking bans:
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/02/18/aclu-of-washington-opposes-park-smoking-ban&view=comments
The first time I smoked a cigarette was in the back of a city bus.
My childhood doctor smoked, in his offcie with patients. I went to a Catholic boys school and one of the priests smoked in class. Football coaches smoked on the sidelines during games.
Those days, like the 25-cent beer and the roar of an Oldsmobile V-8 engine, are long gone and nothing will bring them back.
Hey, you can't even light up in an Irish pub! American smokers are not alone. Smokers in many industrialized countries are facing a growing list of restrictions.
The last time I checked, only 20 to 25 percent of the adult U.S. population smoked and minority smokers' rights aren't a priority on anyone's political agenda.
We've become a convenient political target.
But I'm ever the optimist.
All of these anti-smoking curbs eventually will reach the point of diminishing returns because non-smokers will feel adequately protected and onerous regulations will be too costly and impractical to enforce. The public and the politicians will, at some point, lose interest.
Then we can smoke in peace -- as long as it's in our house, our backyard or maybe in the alley.
By the way, the ACLU has been one of the few independent legal groups to challenge some of the more outrageous smoking bans:
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/02/18/aclu-of-washington-opposes-park-smoking-ban&view=comments
Some pleasant optimism there cornguy, and as perturbed as I am, still have to admit yer prolly right about those diminishing returns. I really don't think they'd succeed in an all right ban, even if they did finally get it in their head to take the leap.
That's stupid. . obviously the kids where already going there before they became fat, no need to lure them in.
But seriously. . . the hell do you 'lure' a kid anyway? The damned parent has to actually take them, parents CAN say no, no matter what they say these days to get out of it with their responsibilities. I know damn-well my Mutter wouldn't dare take me to fast food more than twice a week, usually not at all to be perfectly honest. . . the old girl was a terribly cook but at least she did it daily and moderately healthy.
But seriously. . . the hell do you 'lure' a kid anyway? The damned parent has to actually take them, parents CAN say no, no matter what they say these days to get out of it with their responsibilities. I know damn-well my Mutter wouldn't dare take me to fast food more than twice a week, usually not at all to be perfectly honest. . . the old girl was a terribly cook but at least she did it daily and moderately healthy.
its like this up north too. its not strictly enforced but they have banned smoking in public parks and beaches. Stanely Park was the big kick in the ass for smokers. Its an amazing city park island on the water, has a seawall around the border, benches with the most amazing views of the city/mountains, and you can enjoy a smoke anywhere on it now.
i used to love going to English Bay, have a coffee and a smoke and people watch. not anymore.
i used to love going to English Bay, have a coffee and a smoke and people watch. not anymore.
That is a horrible thing! Toys in Happy Meals, are basically a child's right!
I love that the article had 525+ comments but only 7-9 people were in support of the decision.
I love that the article had 525+ comments but only 7-9 people were in support of the decision.
That's pretty much how America works. Those 7 people out of 600 were against something, got it banned while the other 593 people didn't even know those 7 people existed --- and then everyone was confused and just plain pissed off when something they didn't even know was up for discussion comes and takes away something for no reason.
Damned W.A.S.P. man. In the 20s it was the booze, in the new century it'll be everything else.
Damned W.A.S.P. man. In the 20s it was the booze, in the new century it'll be everything else.
I know I'm never supposed to say never, but the possibility of an outright ban on tobacco is remote -- very remote.
A couple of months ago I read Daniel Okrent's "Last Call," an enlightening history of prohibition in the U.S., how it was a complete failure, cost the government millions, led to the growth of organized crime and how it all began. I recommend it.
The lesson for me is that there are few similarities to the prohibition movement and smoking restrictions.
Today's self-appointed health guardians are usually the strongest advocates for smoking bans, while a century ago influential preachers and social-cause zealots like Carrie Nation led the march to prohibition.
It was a powerful coaltion that intimidated politicians. And it fell apart when it became impossible to enforce because everyone who wanted a drink coulkd get one.
Lucky for us smokers, there is no modern-day equivalent to that "old-time religion" which was the driving force behind prohibition.
So armed with that knowledge, I plan to fill my MM Diplomat with PA and set out into the night for a winter stroll after dinner -- while it's still legal!
A couple of months ago I read Daniel Okrent's "Last Call," an enlightening history of prohibition in the U.S., how it was a complete failure, cost the government millions, led to the growth of organized crime and how it all began. I recommend it.
The lesson for me is that there are few similarities to the prohibition movement and smoking restrictions.
Today's self-appointed health guardians are usually the strongest advocates for smoking bans, while a century ago influential preachers and social-cause zealots like Carrie Nation led the march to prohibition.
It was a powerful coaltion that intimidated politicians. And it fell apart when it became impossible to enforce because everyone who wanted a drink coulkd get one.
Lucky for us smokers, there is no modern-day equivalent to that "old-time religion" which was the driving force behind prohibition.
So armed with that knowledge, I plan to fill my MM Diplomat with PA and set out into the night for a winter stroll after dinner -- while it's still legal!
I beg to differ, I've stared that old-time religion dead in the eye countless times here in Texas. Believe me, it exists -- ask any student at UNT who has seen the evangelists standing on the free speech square spouting fire and brimstone to all who pass -- even the Christians. I've seen it in the PTA movement back in highschool "Mothers to Remove Satan's Garb" (they wanted to ban black clothing in schools. . . something they likely didn't think through and only meant the gothic, punk, emo and what-have-you styles) -- as I said. . .believe me, the worst parts of "old-time-religion" are still alive and kicking, and biting, and clawing, and fightin' and screamin' at that.
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