Nostalgia for Vintage Tobacco

[pauls456]

Title edited. Please understand Rule 9! - jpm

I think this was raised recently, but I want to revisit it from a slightly different angle. The question is kind of directed towards senior smokers who have some recollection of how fresh tobaccos tasted in previous decades. Is it possible to say that the best tobaccos of previous decades were superior to the best of what's out there now? In answering this, I would like to exclude experience with vintage tins, due to the dramatic changes that tobacco can undergo when aged.

 

[sablebrush52]

Memory, especially sense memory, is a tricky thing. I have very distinct sense memories for some of the tobaccos I smoked in the 1970's, and I had the superb sense to smoke superb tobaccos.

The problem with answering your question is that there is no good helpful answer. Suppose that I say, "yes the tobaccos were much better made then" who is going to really benefit? You can't find a time machine to go back in time to stock up. We have what we have today.

When I say that Germain's version of Balkan Sobranie tastes and smells like gasoline infused puppy farts, it's not because it doesn't compare with what I smoked in the '70's, it's because it tastes like gasoline infused puppy farts in the here and now.

Clearly, some people really love smoking gasoline infused puppy farts or they wouldn't be chasing tins of the stuff, although it could be their under developed palates or that they're just starfuckers.

I can say that the Ogden's version of St Bruno featured a different base of Virginias than the MacBaren. I still like St Bruno.

Whether the flavor and quality of what I smoked in the '70's is better than what is available today doesn't matter.

You can only form an opinion from having lived in that time, smoked that stuff new, and had the senses to remember what you experienced. And even then it doesn't matter, because it's just an opinion and of little actual value.

More important is to find what you like in today's market and enjoy it.

 

[pauls456]

Your point is well taken. The reason I ask is that we have all have access to older tins, but the price is high. Alternatively, I could just try to buy the best tobaccos currently produced and cellar them. Even a mediocre blend will improve with age, but I doubt that it will transform into something great, even with years of aging.

 

[kcghost]

Real tough question because most of us can't remember our last meal let alone what we were smoking 45-50 years ago.

 

[sablebrush52]

Your point is well taken. The reason I ask is that we have all have access to older tins, but the price is high. Alternatively, I could just try to buy the best tobaccos currently produced and cellar them. Even a mediocre blend will improve with age, but I doubt that it will transform into something great, even with years of aging.

Buy what you like today and stock up. I can say that you're not really missing anything life changing. If you're curious and don't mind a splurge to satisfy that curiosity, then fine.
My experiences with really old tins is decidedly mixed. Some time the result is fantastic, sometimes I'm faced with an expensive zombie vomit, mummy dust, or wraiths.

 

[sablebrush52]

Real tough question because most of us can't remember our last meal let alone what we were smoking 45-50 years ago.

I can remember what I smoked 40-50 years ago. I can remember what I was doing while I was smoking it. I can remember the sights, sounds, and smells around me when I was smoking something memorable. Not nearly all of it all the time, but moments that stuck.

 

[pauls456]

I'm mainly a Virginia smoker, and I've been impressed with some of the recent Cornell and Diehl offerings. It will be interesting to see how they smoke ten years from now.

 

[romeowood]

Your point is well taken. The reason I ask is that we have all have access to older tins, but the price is high. Alternatively, I could just try to buy the best tobaccos currently produced and cellar them. Even a mediocre blend will improve with age, but I doubt that it will transform into something great, even with years of aging.

For what it's worth, many blends produced today are destined to become the glorified blends of yesteryear in the future. In my own experience, I knew that C&D's Sunday Picnic was going to be one of my favorite blends the moment I popped a fresh tin a bit over a decade ago; time has only improved it in my cellar, as well as solidified its place in the market. I kind of touched on that in my recent review of it. Many GL Pease blends are another example of blends that are wonderful now and destined for glory in the memories of our future selves. Many are the names returned to again here in the forums and in the retailers; in your own experience, that blend that hits *you* just right, and which you have the foresight to stock up on, may prove to be one of those blends. So, the long and short answer is no, old tobaccos weren't any better then, because they don't exist anymore, and neither did we. We're only here now, and can only do with that which we will.
But to play devil's advocate, I do have some old Escudo for sale, if you're interested...won't find anything like it today! ?

 

[romeowood]

Also, not every mediocre blend will improve with age--in all honesty, I'd estimate 70% show little to no change, 20% improve noticeably, and maybe 2% become mana of the gods. The other 8% get tossed in the dustbin.

 

[sablebrush52]

But to play devil's advocate, I do have some old Escudo for sale, if you're interested...won't find anything like it today!

Well...there's that...

 

[condorlover1]

I've smoke and supplied all sorts of ancient tins of tobacco and I have concluded that the whole thing is totally subjective. Will smoking a 1918 tin of Owl Pellets enable you to time travel? Probably not. Will it taste the same way as the fellow sitting in a dug out on the Western Front opening said tin of Players Owl Pellets in 1918? Probably not. I have smoked vacuum sealed Woodbine cigarettes fresh from the 1918 tin and they tasted pretty much like they did in 1982 when you could buy '10 Woods' in your local corner store. Tobacco and the sauces used in them change. You only have to look at Condor or even closer to home the latest batch of Ennerdale from Gawith - nothing ever remains the same except death and taxes.

 

[kschatey]

Memory is a funny thing... Most enjoyable experiences get even better with time. So, a blend that might have been good and memorable because of situational factors can become great or amazing over time. A natural product like tobacco can and will never be the same over the decades due to a myriad of factors. Even if it was better or a least different before, it's not available now and even a vintage tin won't be the same as it was. Just enjoy the memories, enjoy the vintage tins if you have any, but most importantly, just enjoy the present before it passes you by.

 

[pauls456]

Great viewpoints, glad to hear 'em.

 

[Ahi Ka]

One of the best smokes of my life was from a jar of 1980s st Bruno. The topping had long since disappeared, and the flakes were well dried out by the time I acquired them, but the quality of the leaf used in this OTC blew my mind.

That’s the only “vintage” as opposed to aged blend i have tried, so not enough to make any sensible conclusions. But boy, that leaf was good.

 

[ray47]

Back in the 60's & 70's I smoked only OTC blends like Prince Albert, Sir Walter Raleigh Regular, Carter Hall etc.... To me they taste the same today as they did back then, especially Sir Walter Raleigh.

 

[pauls456]

Judging from the responses, it probably makes little sense to go vintage. Unless the tobaccos that are being chased are no longer in production, or are currently being made by a different blender.

 

[kschatey]

Title edited. Please understand Rule 9! - jpm

I think this was raised recently, but I want to revisit it from a slightly different angle. The question is kind of directed towards senior smokers who have some recollection of how fresh tobaccos tasted in previous decades. Is it possible to say that the best tobaccos of previous decades were superior to the best of what's out there now? In answering this, I would like to exclude experience with vintage tins, due to the dramatic changes that tobacco can undergo when aged.

Better or superior is mostly subjective. "Different" may be the better way to describe them.

 

[sablebrush52]

One of the best smokes of my life was from a jar of 1980s st Bruno. The topping had long since disappeared, and the flakes were well dried out by the time I acquired them, but the quality of the leaf used in this OTC blew my mind.

That’s the only “vintage” as opposed to aged blend i have tried, so not enough to make any sensible conclusions. But boy, that leaf was good.

The base blend of the Ogden's version was more complex with a wider range of flavors than the MacBaren version.

Denmark is the place where British blends go to die.

That said, I still enjoy the MacBaren version of St Bruno.

 

[AppalachianPipe92]

For what it's worth, many blends produced today are destined to become the glorified blends of yesteryear in the future. In my own experience, I knew that C&D's Sunday Picnic was going to be one of my favorite blends the moment I popped a fresh tin a bit over a decade ago; time has only improved it in my cellar, as well as solidified its place in the market. I kind of touched on that in my recent review of it. Many GL Pease blends are another example of blends that are wonderful now and destined for glory in the memories of our future selves. Many are the names returned to again here in the forums and in the retailers; in your own experience, that blend that hits *you* just right, and which you have the foresight to stock up on, may prove to be one of those blends. So, the long and short answer is no, old tobaccos weren't any better then, because they don't exist anymore, and neither did we. We're only here now, and can only do with that which we will.
But to play devil's advocate, I do have some old Escudo for sale, if you're interested...won't find anything like it today! ?

Sunday Picnic is my daily blend. Can't get enough of the stuff

 

[romeowood]

In regards to the original question, "Is it possible to say that the best tobaccos of previous decades were superior to the best of what's out there now?", also consider that, as a general rule, of the millions of pounds of tobacco produced each year by growers all over the world, the tobacco selected for pipes (and of course cigars) is the best of the lot, with the rest being churned into the cigarette and ancillary industries. So, as a baseline, pipe tobacco starts as the best of the best...of each crop, each year.
I would guess that in general, modernization and advances in agricultural science would have trended to improve crop quality overall since "the old days"; that said, each acre grown experiences a unique mixture of variables that make some years better or worse than others. So a short answer would be no; in general, tobacco quality has slightly improved overall in the period between 1900-2022. That said, there are always outlier crops of exceptional quality when the magic of terroir and kismet combine in just the right way.
But that's just one tiny part of the equation. Much of what makes a finished blend is in the hands of the producer, and right now we're in the midst of a decade-plus long uptrend in the market (forecast to continue at least through 2027); increased demand has increased quality, variety, and quantity. That's just business.
I would love to hear blenders and buyers chime in on the quality of product and availability year-over-year (and decade-over-decade) in the trade markets. Russ! Greg! Ted! Per! I invoke ye!
But...
Then there's time. Once a blender has their way with a pile of leaf, and makes something truly special, then seals it away in a time capsule, magical eldritch things happen that can't be calculated or replicated. Aged tins of great blends that have proven their quality while fresh are, like wines of special vintage, paragons of gustatory experience, and sought after for good reason. Special crops like a 1983 Carolina red Virginia that someone had the foresight to mellow out, press into a cake, then tin up a decade later--you can't replicate that experience any other way.

Interestingly posed question that really has me pondering, thank you @pauls456