No More Tobacco Trade Forum

[admin]

There were a few guys that had two different guesses that were both correct.
We recently had legal counsel review the site. There were issues with tobacco trades regarding proof of age.
This also relates to my other, newer business that I started with Greg Pease, our auction site - http://www.briarbid.com .
We have been working with Pay Pal's legal and compliance departments so we could be approved for having tobacco listings over there.
A couple of their concerns on BriarBid were age and drug paraphernalia, including not just glass pipes for example, but also "fake tobacco".
This lead to me showing them this site, PipesMagazine.com, and explaining how we are marketing to the community of "real pipe smokers" over here, and that we use the Safe Surf system.
PM having a special forum to facilitate tobacco trades is an issue. It's too prominent. What you guys do on your own between friends that know each other, and know they they are both adults is your own business.
The box pass can stay as long as PipesMagazine.com is not involved in it, and it's just one or two threads floating around. If anything goes wrong with it, you are on your own.
The good news for BriarBid is that we just got approved by Pay Pal to have tobacco listings. Creating a listing only cost $1, and you get a $1 credit on your account when you sign up.
Pay Pal understands that many of the listings will be classified as collectibles. Any tobacco that is for consumption is ok because it will be processed through Pay Pal, which requires you to be an adult to have an account. PIPE TOBACCO is the ONLY type of tobacco that will be allowed.
I'm hoping Greg will be working on the programming for the new listings over the weekend and we can have the new forms set up for Monday.

 

[rickpal14]

Thanks for the update Kevin! Hate to see it go but understand why.

 

[dottle]

I think I had one of the correct guesses : )

 

[dlattim]

Dang lawyers! If one already has the tobacco one wants to trade it follows that proof of age has already been provided. As far as the briar bid thing, that's another story.

 

[Perique]

Makes sense, and I think most of us figured this was the issue. I'm sure there are plenty of existing relationships on here where known pipe-smoking adults can trade casually. In an ideal world, it would be nice to have a forum sub-section, but we don't live in an ideal world. And I would rather this forum stay out of legal trouble, and stay available to us all, then get into legal problems (or sting operations) and be shut down. Thanks Kevin.

 

[dottle]

Humm,does this mean Paypal,wich I dont use anymore,will be the only payment option for tobacco bids? I prefer to use postal money orders, but thats just me.

 

[spartan]

Well damn.
If only there was some way to verify ones age on pipesmagazine.com
All of the tobacco websites merely have a box where you check if you're 18 and up, or a little thing where you type in your date of birth before you're allowed to buy the tobacco online right? That doesn't actually do anything to verify your age 100% But if it's good enough for tobacco retailers couldn't it be implimented here very simply?

 

[taerin]

@Kevin And here I was reaching out to other communities thinking that tobacco trades are done for, way to go Kevin for saving it, at $1 to list, it is still very worth it and unlike the pipes side which is having issues right now on Briarbid, tobacco trading will always be strong. The trading is a very important element in our community, now we can just post here that we have a trade we wanna do and ink it to Briarbid the same way we would a pipe. That works for me, plus it gets rid of the issues involved with disreputable people doing trades (there are few) because they would have to break their Paypal contract, which is a binding legal contract.
@Spartan Since you can't see someone and match them against a photo ID, it's pretty much moot, the best you could do is ask for a copy of their photo ID, but without research I would not be sure that it is enough to meet the requirements of tobacco laws if a minor does show you a false ID and nabs something. I have required someone in the past to show me a photo ID before giving him free samples because I knew him before he turned 18 and I had to make very sure that he actually had indeed turned 18 (which he did, thank God). He was a good friend of mine, but he was an online friend, so I couldn't just take his word for it.

 

[mangers]

Yep now you have to pay $$$ to do a trade! It's all about the money!!

 

[freakiefrog]

Totally understandable and respect the decision..

 

[hfearly]

1 Cent as a symbolic value, just to prove that the identity you connected to paypal is you and you are of legal age, I'd totally agree and even use the briarbid.com website (which btw. has a not so nice interface). But a Dollar out of every trade? Mmmmh. I don't know.

 

[dlattim]

+1 hfearly. Doesn't hardly seem like a trade if you have to pay for it. Just sayin'...

 

[bigboi]

I completely understand. Most of us probably do not try to hide our age, but there are some out there that will completely be dishonest. Trying to weed out the few to protect the majority from completely losing this sight I think is a good move. I am not familiar with how briar bid works, but if you read Kevin's post he alluded to the fact what we do through private messaging or between us is between us. I am sure some of us more innovative types can work something out with out getting Pipe Magazine into legal troubles with in the parameters Kevin is working hard for us to have.

 

[rmbittner]

As I understand it, if you don't want to pay the fees for trades -- or, I'm assuming, sales -- of tobacco on BriarBid, we're all still free to PM each other here and arrange personal trades.
Bob

 

[judcole]

If one already has the tobacco one wants to trade it follows that proof of age has already been provided

That's not true. In these days of internet shopping, one of the traders could easily be someone underage who obtained that tobacco using dad's credit card.

Since this is a commercial site,not a hobby site, Kevin has to be super careful.

Sad to see it happen, but I understand why.

 

[brewshooter]

Yeah, I kind of read it more along the same lines as bigboi and rmbittner. Having a special area endorsed by PM was the issue.
I'm actually a bit surprised it wasn't aliens.

 

[mrgunnar177]

I really wanted to meet the pipe smoking aliens....that's all I'm going to say on this.

 

[dottle]

+1 hfearly

 

[mrgunnar177]

+1 hfearly

 

[ace57]

I don't think paying $1 to trade is so bad. If the USPS raised shipping by $1 to get the trade done would you stop trading? Trades on here were never free unless to could hand your trade face to face.