https://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/Three_Nuns/?utm_source=Smokingpipes.com&utm_campaign=d95bbbe030-Tue_Jul_31_2018_ThreeNuns&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0e8b6a473f-d95bbbe030-209162285
New Three Nuns At SPC
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Doblone is the actual recreation. These are more like variations. Nothing wrong with that and buy them one their own merits. But know what you're buying.
For those of us ignorant of shortened names of tobaccos, are you referring to Savinelli Doblone D'Oro? I have a small sample of that and have found it to be a very, very fine smoke, so I could see what you mean, if in fact I take your word for it, and I do trust y'all's takes on a lot of the tobaccos. I might would still give the Three Nuns a try, if only for comparisons and my own sake.
Yes, indeed...that be the weed....
There is a bit o’weirdness floating above all these blends. This maybe common knowledge at this point and details may be off so please forgive (short term is hazy today after biz meeting gone wild last night), anyway, when MacB purchased 3Nun’s brand licensing limited the recipe to what was current. At the time, dfk replaced perique as a cost saving measure as the blend was in deep decline. MacB was stuck with what they had.
Later, they essentially recreated the “old” 3nun’s for Savinelli as Doblone d’oro (don’t buy it or bad things will emerge from the tin..like snakes, or something)
The current variations are reall noodle scratchers. One is an attempt to get back to the old stuff, but not as near as doblone....and the other is a real wtf moment...but hey, new blends are to be celebrated.
There is a bit o’weirdness floating above all these blends. This maybe common knowledge at this point and details may be off so please forgive (short term is hazy today after biz meeting gone wild last night), anyway, when MacB purchased 3Nun’s brand licensing limited the recipe to what was current. At the time, dfk replaced perique as a cost saving measure as the blend was in deep decline. MacB was stuck with what they had.
Later, they essentially recreated the “old” 3nun’s for Savinelli as Doblone d’oro (don’t buy it or bad things will emerge from the tin..like snakes, or something)
The current variations are reall noodle scratchers. One is an attempt to get back to the old stuff, but not as near as doblone....and the other is a real wtf moment...but hey, new blends are to be celebrated.
^^ This pretty well sums it up. McB thought they had bought the rights to the Va/Per formula only to find out they bought the dark fired version. Then they recreated the Va/Per version under the Doblone 'Oro name. These new ones are Per's own takes on the blend.
I would imagine that the blend went through any number of changes or adjustments over the years as it went from owner to owner. I've smoked the old (late 20th - early 21st century) Va/Per and Doblone d'Oro is pretty close. Keep in mind that any of the Va/Per is well aged, which means that it's changed from what it was anyway. Matches are never exact, so it's always a matter of how close. Doblone d'Oro is very close, maybe a bit more flavorful than the old stuff is now, close enough for me to consider it a match.
I would imagine that the blend went through any number of changes or adjustments over the years as it went from owner to owner. I've smoked the old (late 20th - early 21st century) Va/Per and Doblone d'Oro is pretty close. Keep in mind that any of the Va/Per is well aged, which means that it's changed from what it was anyway. Matches are never exact, so it's always a matter of how close. Doblone d'Oro is very close, maybe a bit more flavorful than the old stuff is now, close enough for me to consider it a match.
I thought the original Three Nuns with perique did not contain any dark-fired leaf?
So why does Doblone D'Oro contain dark-fired if it is a match?
I haven't tried either, but I am having difficulty seeing how the flavours can be so close if the constituent tobaccos aren't even similar.
Can anyone explain this to me?
So why does Doblone D'Oro contain dark-fired if it is a match?
I haven't tried either, but I am having difficulty seeing how the flavours can be so close if the constituent tobaccos aren't even similar.
Can anyone explain this to me?
^^^+1^^^
Since I'm heavily stocked/cellared on Doblone d'Oro, I am free to comment. It is the real deal taste-wise, despite the condiment tobaccos involved. Or should I say horrible stuff? Read between the lines. I did grab 6 tins of the new 3 Nuns Green (1 now and 5 to age), just to compare. I'm sure it will be good. At this point I don't need any new tobacco in my cellar or rotation, but it is fun to dabble on the new stuff to keep things interesting.
Since I'm heavily stocked/cellared on Doblone d'Oro, I am free to comment. It is the real deal taste-wise, despite the condiment tobaccos involved. Or should I say horrible stuff? Read between the lines. I did grab 6 tins of the new 3 Nuns Green (1 now and 5 to age), just to compare. I'm sure it will be good. At this point I don't need any new tobacco in my cellar or rotation, but it is fun to dabble on the new stuff to keep things interesting.
Well after looking at the description for now, I reckon I can see the difference. The green has Per and DFK, whereas the yellow is just straight Va? I am reading that right....right? Just trying to see what the difference is. From first glance, I'd be more inclined to pick up the green than the yellow.
Green:
Green:
Yellow:
I've....already decided I'm buying more of the Doblone so....... :nana:
Sure. Easy. Because Doblone d'Oro tastes like the Va/Per Three Nuns. Simple as that.
Any component tobacco leaf tastes different depending on how it was processed and where it was grown. This is true of Virginias, burleys. you name it. I've got a palette of different Periques that all taste different from each other. Perique can have a variety of flavors and still be Perique, same with Virginias, Burleys, etc. So component tobaccos being different? They're always different and they vary year to year. That's why companies need blenders to maintain the flavors of their existing blends.
You can follow a recipe and if you're not using the exact same sourced leaf that was used for that recipe and you can't produce the exact same processing that was used for that recipe, the result will be different. Recipes are a starting point.
I used to smoke Sobranie made Balkan Sobranie back in the 70's and Gallaher made Sobranie in the 1980's, and the blend changed. Now it's made by Germain's from the "original recipe" and I find it unsmokable. They don't have access to the same sources and they didn't apparently adjust for that.
White Knight is much closer, and Russ isn't using the "recipe". He's using his palette, having been a huge fan of Sobranie Original Smoking Mixture and 759 for years. You may start with the recipe and adjust for the sources you have available, using whatever works, until you get the flavor right. That's what a blender does. That's what Per did with Doblone d'Oro.
Besides, how do you know that there wasn't any dfk in the old Va/Per Three Nuns? Because it isn't listed? Label listings were often incomplete. Descriptions often had and still have boiler plate like "secret process" or "rare and costly ingredients", blah, blah, blah. We don't know for a fact what was in it. Only someone with factory production data would know.
I love Doblone D`Oro but I'd like to try these new blends just to see what is what. I don't expect them to taste like the original 3N, and anyone who never smoked the original wouldn't know, so it is best just try them for their own merit or lack thereof whether you've smoked the original or not. As Sable remarked, just know what is most like the original if that's what you'd like to try.
Well put, Lord Barling!
To sim's "having difficulty seeing how the flavours can be so close if the constituent tobaccos aren't even similar." - sable's points cover a lot of ground in the whys and wherefores. During the great Sobranie showdown at Chicago, it was surprising to me, a long time BS759 user, how close RussO and McNeil came to matching the taste profile of the original. Yet they used different methodologies and constituents. There's a lot of synergistic interplay with olfactory and taste sensations with the many chemicals that exist in foods and things that we ingest. Curiously, as Russ's Blackhouse and Mike's Blue Mountain/Balkan have aged, their flavor profiles have diverged quite a bit - both still fine smokes, though.
hp
les
hp
les
Sable,
Fair points. I know where you are coming from and I am aware of the concepts you've mentioned.
I just consider dark-fired to be much less subtle than almost any commonly used tobacco besides latakia so it is unusual for me to see that listed as a component in a Three Nuns match as nothing I've read on the subject has ever connected the original(s) to that particular leaf. DFK is usually associated with the later versions of Three Nuns and so I was wondering why a blender would bring that into the mix when trying to recreate the old incarnation. I'm thinking it must have been used with a liberal hand because Kentucky dominates a blend so easily...
I don't have any factory notebooks at the ready to prove/disprove the original recipe but I simply have not seen much discussion over the years about Kentucky being a core part of the blend. The focus has always been on perique and what versions contained it.
(Including Kevin's blog post from five years ago)
http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/kevins-blog/three-nuns-the-shrieks-of-no-perique/
I will defer to gentlemen such as you and JimInks with experience smoking multiple varieties of Three Nuns and Doblone D'Oro that there is indeed a shared flavour profile between them. Details and proofs are likely lost to the mists of time so individual experiences are all we have left...
Your comments about blending remind me of GLP's piece from the same time period as the link above:
http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/nothing-endures-but-change/
PS I've never chased Germain's Balkan Sobranie because the tobaccos used in the old blends are definitely no longer available so I can appreciate your observation about White Knight having a greater resemblance to the old stuff. With that said, I think there are certainly limits to reliance upon taste and memories alone but in many cases it may be the best option.
PPS Les, well said - the interplay at the chemical level is definitely quite complex so simply judging a blend as merely the sum of its parts can be a major mistake. Thanks for your thoughts...
Likewise, thomasw, wise words to judge each new blend individually because nothing can really live up to the legend that has grown up around Three Nuns. I similarly cringe when I see reports of McClelland matches that are undoubtedly using fairly fresh tobacco in comparison to the painstakingly matured leaf that McClelland worked with!
By the way, sorry for diverting the conversation a little, please feel free to share your experiences with the new blends here as you smoke them...
Fair points. I know where you are coming from and I am aware of the concepts you've mentioned.
I just consider dark-fired to be much less subtle than almost any commonly used tobacco besides latakia so it is unusual for me to see that listed as a component in a Three Nuns match as nothing I've read on the subject has ever connected the original(s) to that particular leaf. DFK is usually associated with the later versions of Three Nuns and so I was wondering why a blender would bring that into the mix when trying to recreate the old incarnation. I'm thinking it must have been used with a liberal hand because Kentucky dominates a blend so easily...
I don't have any factory notebooks at the ready to prove/disprove the original recipe but I simply have not seen much discussion over the years about Kentucky being a core part of the blend. The focus has always been on perique and what versions contained it.
(Including Kevin's blog post from five years ago)
http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/kevins-blog/three-nuns-the-shrieks-of-no-perique/
I will defer to gentlemen such as you and JimInks with experience smoking multiple varieties of Three Nuns and Doblone D'Oro that there is indeed a shared flavour profile between them. Details and proofs are likely lost to the mists of time so individual experiences are all we have left...
Your comments about blending remind me of GLP's piece from the same time period as the link above:
http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/nothing-endures-but-change/
PS I've never chased Germain's Balkan Sobranie because the tobaccos used in the old blends are definitely no longer available so I can appreciate your observation about White Knight having a greater resemblance to the old stuff. With that said, I think there are certainly limits to reliance upon taste and memories alone but in many cases it may be the best option.
PPS Les, well said - the interplay at the chemical level is definitely quite complex so simply judging a blend as merely the sum of its parts can be a major mistake. Thanks for your thoughts...
Likewise, thomasw, wise words to judge each new blend individually because nothing can really live up to the legend that has grown up around Three Nuns. I similarly cringe when I see reports of McClelland matches that are undoubtedly using fairly fresh tobacco in comparison to the painstakingly matured leaf that McClelland worked with!
By the way, sorry for diverting the conversation a little, please feel free to share your experiences with the new blends here as you smoke them...
Sometimes we don't have to rely upon memory. When I compared Doblone d'Oro to the Va/Per Three Nuns I was able to do so because I have been gifted with some of the old stuff and smoked it shortly before trying out Doblone d'Oro. And with the Sobranie, I was able to do an A-B-C comparison since I'd been gifted with some 35 year old Original Smoking Mixture and took advantage of the opportunity to smoke it directly against both the Germain's version and Russ' White Knight.
People frequently mistake dfk for perique and vice versa. I think it’s a matter of proportion and amount of fruitiness in the va leaf that rides shotgun. Take a peek at the most recent blind taste video at spc’s blog for an example. I think all three tasters made this mistake.
DFK doesn’t have to be a hammer. See solani silver.
There are a ton of real top notch vapers available now. This was not the case when 3nuns reigned, similarly, there are plenty of things folks will prefer over doblone.
PS: thanks Neal for the assist :clap:
PPS doblone really is horrible
DFK doesn’t have to be a hammer. See solani silver.
There are a ton of real top notch vapers available now. This was not the case when 3nuns reigned, similarly, there are plenty of things folks will prefer over doblone.
PS: thanks Neal for the assist :clap:
PPS doblone really is horrible
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