The government monster plods ever closer to our quiet past time.
http://gizmodo.com/the-fda-is-cracking-down-on-american-spirit-and-so-call-1726983463
http://gizmodo.com/the-fda-is-cracking-down-on-american-spirit-and-so-call-1726983463
New FDA Tobacco Crackdown
- Thread starter organizedmadman
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This Matt Novak asshole seems like a big fan of the FDA and their mission to make all of our decisions for us. I would love to see his scientific curriculum vitae backing up his use of broad-brush statements such as "This, of course, is bullshit". Paul Revere has already ridden; we know smoking is dangerous and choose to accept the risks. The nanny state do-gooders can go ahead and shut the hell up now. We are at a point where only a complete imbecile fails to recognize the dangers of tobacco use; ad verbiage and warnings are especially irrelevant to those few anyway. Just another proof of the notion that government is nothing but a neccessary evil; the more it becomes an all-encompassing regulatory cancer, the more evil and the less neccessary it becomes.
This FDA "warning" involves only cigarettes and is just arguing about the labeling on the packages. The FDA is trying to protect the huge population of people looking for healthy natural/organic cigarettes.... :crazy:
People looking for "healthy" cigarettes are barking up the wrong tree. While I understand a smoker preferring as few added chemicals as possible, I don't think many smokers are under any illusions about the healthfulness of smoking/using any tobacco product, additives or no. Why try to "protect" people who already are acutely aware of the dangers of their habit?
We might ease the pressure if we as smokers signed a promise to use no public funds to fight any disease we may contract which can be remotely connected to smoking. One of the great arguments against smoking is the increased pressure smoking related diseases bring to health care. If each of us promised or, were required to absolve society (government) of any responsibility for our health care, we could remove that argument.
Of course many smokers would cease smoking when confronted with the fact that all costs would have to be covered by themselves or through a very expensive health policy which they alone would be responsible for. The idea that health care costs are spread throughout the population I am sure does encourage some people to make risky choices. I'm a big fan of individual responsibility. I see no reason that my neighbor should have to share in the costs of my cancer or heart disease.
Of course many smokers would cease smoking when confronted with the fact that all costs would have to be covered by themselves or through a very expensive health policy which they alone would be responsible for. The idea that health care costs are spread throughout the population I am sure does encourage some people to make risky choices. I'm a big fan of individual responsibility. I see no reason that my neighbor should have to share in the costs of my cancer or heart disease.
Hmmm I've lost almost 15 pounds since starting to smoke a pipe in May. Maybe I should have an infomercial extolling the miraculous health benefits of pipe smoking. :lol:
@Warren- I certainly catch, and appreciate, your drift about individual responsibility. I'm just tired of everyone pointing at smokers with their mythical "society pays the price" health care argument. As far as I know, we don't have the "national health" like they do in the UK. Even if health care were a complete taxpayer burden, why does no one use this same argument against people with risky sexual habits, drinking problems, or drug use? Obesity tends to become expensive medically, as does indulging in dangerous or "extreme" sports. Certain lines of work are virtually guaranteed to cause health problems down the line. Why are these groups spared the "health care burden" shaming?
I'd bet that obesity causes- or will cause soon- more medical costs than any other "risky" behavior. I also bet that numbers to back that up aren't available to the general public.
We haven't even reached the utopia of socialist single-payer health care, and somehow everyone who seeks medical treatment is already a "burden on the public". I guess we're just trying to get ahead of the power curve with the stoning and witch hunting. Pretty soon it'll be "how dare people get old! Being elderly is such a drain on the health care system!" One of the few robust industries left in the U.S., by the way.
Pretty ironic when, for example, a 70-year old with terminal pancreatic cancer says, "Doc, the pain is awful, and it's going to take me anyway. Can't you just give me a shot and let me go?". And the answer is, "Oh, no, that would be unethical. By the way, the surgery, chemo, and radiation exhausted the medical coverage you paid premiums on all your life. You're a drain on the system, you turd.".
I just did a Google search for 'cost of obesity in Canada.' In 2005 obesity cost the health care system 4.3 billion dollars. I then googled 'cost of smoking in Canada' and 2002 figures show the cost was 4.4 billion dollars.
And edit : Yes, I would bet that smokers who buy those cigs already know they aren't really any better.
Maybe, the tobacco is of better quality and not the sheet tobacco junk?
aldecaker: I agree that the argument could be applied to all sorts of situations. I kept it to smokers as that was what we were discussing. My own feeling is that my health care is my responsibility. That said, most the costs of my wife's illness was paid for by everyone who pays taxes in America in addition to the health insurance I carry. That certainly saved me a couple a hundred K for which I thank each of you who pay taxes.
Obesity is under the gun now with government wrestling with how to control it. Taxes are rising as school districts are being forced to provide "healthy" meals for the students to throw away. Or the regs are causing more students to bring lunches and reducing the income for the district. Smokers just feel singled out, we certainly aren't alone in our misery. Try buying a "Big Gulp" in New York City. I honestly believe that the time is coming when you will have to sign a form when ordering a pizza, fried chicken, etc. which shows that you have read all of the ingredients and understand the possible risks to you and you children when you order.
Asking a doctor who has taken an oath "to do no harm" is asking a lot if he is dedicated to his profession and took his oath seriously.
As an aside: Killing off the old and infirm could become the norm. Between assisted suicide, abortion on demand (please no political responses), movies, executions on TV, etc. people are rapidly losing the idea of the "sanctity of life." Soon, other than abortion for convenience, the killing off of older "drains on society" might very well become acceptable. Perhaps the norm. I feel that as a people we are becoming inured to death. I find that sad.
Obesity is under the gun now with government wrestling with how to control it. Taxes are rising as school districts are being forced to provide "healthy" meals for the students to throw away. Or the regs are causing more students to bring lunches and reducing the income for the district. Smokers just feel singled out, we certainly aren't alone in our misery. Try buying a "Big Gulp" in New York City. I honestly believe that the time is coming when you will have to sign a form when ordering a pizza, fried chicken, etc. which shows that you have read all of the ingredients and understand the possible risks to you and you children when you order.
Asking a doctor who has taken an oath "to do no harm" is asking a lot if he is dedicated to his profession and took his oath seriously.
As an aside: Killing off the old and infirm could become the norm. Between assisted suicide, abortion on demand (please no political responses), movies, executions on TV, etc. people are rapidly losing the idea of the "sanctity of life." Soon, other than abortion for convenience, the killing off of older "drains on society" might very well become acceptable. Perhaps the norm. I feel that as a people we are becoming inured to death. I find that sad.
I smoke primarily because of nicotine and its soothing yet stimulating impact on my mind and body. I smoked cigarettes for most of my life and rolled my own from Drum tobacco for years.
Having discovered the comforts of pipe smoking, I no longer even think about smoking a cigarette.
As a result, my lungs are clear and my enjoyment of tobacco and nicotine has become much more meaningful, ceremonial, and acceptable to me.
A pipe to me means no more paper and no more inhaling. It means much more flavor and much more enjoyment of the act of smoking. It means relaxation, contemplation, introspection, and of course it means subduing the nicotine craving that resides in the recesses of my brain, even after years of abstinence, with far less harmful results.
Having discovered the comforts of pipe smoking, I no longer even think about smoking a cigarette.
As a result, my lungs are clear and my enjoyment of tobacco and nicotine has become much more meaningful, ceremonial, and acceptable to me.
A pipe to me means no more paper and no more inhaling. It means much more flavor and much more enjoyment of the act of smoking. It means relaxation, contemplation, introspection, and of course it means subduing the nicotine craving that resides in the recesses of my brain, even after years of abstinence, with far less harmful results.
You have to look at the big picture to determine where this is all headed. It all fits in with the 2030 Agenda (which replaces Agenda 21 for the 21st century) to be presented to the United Nations during the 3 day summit of world leaders on Sept 25-27th, 2015. Pope Francis will speak to the UN on the 25th, only the 4th time in it's 70 yr history that a pope has visited the UN.
https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld
https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld
Hay Warren! I think if they put all the tobacco tax into a "smokers health care fund" I bet it adds to more than the expense! Hay stickfarmer! Tobacco tax in Canada 2013 - about 7.3 billion! Isn't that more than the expense? Now there's some news from the North! So Suck on that FDA!
(thanks for the stats Google)
Plugugly
(thanks for the stats Google)
Plugugly
What Plug-ugly said! :clap:
@ Warren...
@ Warren...
This, This right here is what I have the most problems with. :| this is the reason we are in the situation we are in.
Hot damn! I wonder if it's possible to find out where the surplus cash from tobacco tax goes? Back into health care? Or just in the coffers for whatever? I won't speculate or go into specifics here. :wink:
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