Need Help - Bone Extension on a Pre-Republic Peterson Straight Dublin 120F DeLux

[mau1]

Here’s something interesting that I have never seen before. I believe it is a bone extension (chimney). It’s on a Pre-Republic Peterson - Straight Dublin 120F DeLuxe that was part of a lot of Peterson pipes I purchased a few months ago. The pipe was incredibly dirty but in pretty good condition. Stamped Peterson’s DeLuxe on the top, and Made In over Ireland beneath the shank. There is no P stamped on the stem. There’s some scorching on the rim and a bit of the rim has been worn from tapping.
I can’t remove the extension yet. I had the stem in OxiClean overnight and have also stood the stem in 70% isopropyl alcohol for an hour or so. My plan is to soak the extension further in the alcohol. Failing that, does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? And does prolonged exposure to alcohol do any damage to the extension/stem?
Also, does the bone extension and lack of a P on the stem help narrow down when the pipe was made? According to Peterson Pipe Notes, the Straight Dublin 120F came out during the Irish Free State-Era (1922-1937). When did Peterson start putting the P on the stems?
Thanks gang.

 

[dmcmtk]

Why do you want to remove it? Everything looks pretty good right now..quit while your ahead. I don't know this, but I would assume it is screw fitted. Take great care with bone/horn. And yes, I've seen them before.

 

[mau1]

I'm considering that. Murphy's law and all. But I'm having a hard time getting a cleaner very far up the stem. And the insides of this pipe are incredibly dirty.

 

[ashdigger]

I would leave the chimney in place. Yes they are "removable", but I would caution you to not remove it. As for cleaning the stem, I have used the thin Falcon pipe cleaners with great success in cleaning very, very, very dirty stems. They are rigid and you'll eventually make enough headway to use "normal" cleaners. Btw, I use 151 Everclear, but rumor has it that hot water works wonders.
The trick is patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Effort. Patience.

 

[mau1]

Alright. I know I'm going to break the extension if I keep fiddling with it. It's inevitable. And then I'd feel like shit every time I look at the pipe. So, I will heed your advice and leave things well enough alone. And look for these Falcon pipe cleaners. Thanks for the advice, guys.

 

[jensen]

To remove the bone extension from a Peterson stem I use a drop or two or three of that the madams use to remove color from the nails. And as ashdigger says, patience

 

[mau1]

Does anyone know when Peterson started using bone extensions and when they dropped them?

 

[ssjones]

It's not written anywhere that I can find as to when the bone chimney extensions were changed to aluminum. Here's a Mark Irwin blog that shows the chimney, which is definitely screwed into the stem. Mark mentions how fragile the bone extensions are, and I can vouch for that, having broke the one I had.

http://www.petersonpipenotes.org/tag/peterson-centenary-pipes
He (and I) recommend cleaning behind the extension, as tars definitely build up, effecting the flavor and draw. So, you have to make a decision, live with the possible gummed up tenon, or breaking the extension. You could try soaking it in alcohol and see if it will unscrew, but I'd wager you have a 90% or greater chance of breaking it. You can sedn the stem back to Peterson, and they'll fit a new aluminum chimney. The pipes do smoke better with the chimney, unless you like a really wide open tenon.

 

[mau1]

Thanks Al. I left the extension standing in alcohol overnight but no luck in removing it. I've ordered some Falcon pipe cleaners and until they arrive, I will leave things well enough alone. I'll keep searching for information about dating bone extensions. Something may come to light in the future.
Jensen, I will hold off on the nail polish remover as I think it might be too caustic.
Thanks

 

[ssjones]

I suspect Mark might have that info in his Peterson book, due out at the Chicago show this year.

 

[mau1]

Interesting.
The next question I have is when did Peterson start putting a P stamp on their stems?
I suspect it will differ for the various models and there will be a lack of consistency.

 

[osiris01]

This is the first time I have seen a chimney on a non-system pipe. I thought that the chimney sits below the bore in the sump (on the Premiers and Deluxe models), but the 120 doesn't have a sump, does it? I thought the only straight system pipe was the 31 which has a longer chimney which ends in the sump under the chamber. Live and learn.
The extension was detailed in the patent application in 1894 (US519135A), although it doesn't detail the material used or the fixture type. I read somewhere (unverified I'm afraid) that the chimney changed from bone to aluminum late 60s but, as with most things 'Pete', I don't think this change happened overnight since I had a 1971 Deluxe with a bone chimney (it may have been scavenged from a different pipe, I guess). As others have said, trying to remove it if it is stuck will almost certainly break it. If you're desperate, you can put a micro-screwdriver through two of the holes in the side and gently turn, but personally, I wouldn't risk it.
Can't help on the stem logo, although I suspect 'inconsistency' may sum it up. Very much looking forward to getting Mark's book.

 

[mau1]

Thanks Osiris for the patent detail. I'm no Peterson expert but the extension on the 120F came as a surprise to me. I do love the graceful lines of that model. I find the history of pipe making facinating, and am also waiting with anticipation on Mark's book. There'll be lots to discuss on this forum once new information comes to light.

 

[ssjones]

I had a bone extension on a 9BC, which is not considered a system pipe. (which broke on removal....)

 

[osiris01]

I'm now confused. I thought the whole point of the chimney was to draw the smoke back causing turbulence so that the smoke entered the stem directly above the sump and any moisture would condense and end up in the sump rather than heading back down toward the bore and bowl or up the stem. I think I need to take my own advice and read the patent doc.

 

[ashdigger]

I have two shape 69 Petes with chimneys that are not system pipes

 

[ssjones]

Mark Irwin's blog to the rescue, as usual! Here's an exert describing a
http://www.petersonpipenotes.org/author/mirwin58

The third thing I want to call your attention to is the tenon extension. Traditionally (if not during the Dublin Era), tenons and mouthpieces have been of great importance to Peterson. This one, while molded and not a bone screw-in, features the extended “chimney” so crucial to correct tenon-mortise airflow for the P-Lip mouthpiece. The graduated bore of the P-Lip as well as this extension makes the pipe a “sub-System” (as we call it in the book), which means that it will perform considerably better than a traditional fishtail. This type of molded extension goes all the way back to the original molded-stem Patent mouthpieces, incidentally, and doesn’t seem to have disappeared (alas!) from the Peterson workshop until the 1950s. This may have been due in part to the fashion of implanting stingers, and not merely to brand amnesia, but whatever the reason, it is unfortunate.

 

[osiris01]

OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong. I can accept it. I've had plenty of practice.
I get the graduated bore and how this affects the airflow through the chamber up through the stem. What I don't understand is how the chimney can improve the performance of a stem. If it doesn't dump the moisture in the sump, and the bore of the chimney is the same as the tenon, I just can't see it.
Here's what the patent app says: (extension 10 is chimney, pocket 5 is sump)
The stem. and mouth-piece may be made round, oval or of any other desired shape. It will be seen that the tubular extension 10 extending into the pocket 5, not only serves to deflect the nicotine and other obstructions into the said pocket as well as to conduct the saliva into the latter, but that it will also serve effectually to prevent any obnoxious matter from the said pocket to return into the stem, even if the pipe be inverted; the annular space around said flange serving to receive the contents of the pocket in case the pipe should be tilted.
I'm not disputing it; I just don't understand it

 

[ssjones]

Mark has told me "you really want to use the chimney". But, to be honest, I see no difference with or without. But, I'm a relatively dry smoker.