Naval Collision Inquiry

[sumusfumus]

I read thru all of the various discussions and found that I learned a great deal, especially from those with experience serving in the military. I never served, but I do have great respect and admiration for those who have served their country. Thank you, really, for the sacrifices that you made and faced.
These collisions are truly tragic, and more than just unfortunate sailors were killed. Also killed: reputations, careers, confidence, the families and friends who are now left to grieve and wonder.... why? What went wrong, and who made it go wrong. To me, these collisions are no accidents. There had to be massive screw ups.
Many younger forum members might not be old enough to remember/know that the USS Navy has weathered many scandals. Too many in my opinion. My biggest fear, given the history of the USA Navy for their less-than-honorable, cover-ups - (remember the USS Iowa gun-turret explosion, and the Tail Hook scandals?) - is that we may never learn what really happened. Some heads will roll, for sure, but in a few months, alternate, plausible, explanations will be shoved down our throats. The fake media will print the propaganda fed to them by Navy PR spin-doctors. There will be those, with military knowledge, and experience, who will catch the familiar stench of a BS story, the rest of us will forget. Cynical? Absolutely. I've lived long enough to have the stars taken out of my eyes. Color me less than optimistic that the truth will be told.
Tragic.
Frank

 

[tslex]

sumusfumus:
First, to be clear, I didn't serve. I spent years as a newspaper reporter covering the military, especially military aviation (including, extensively, naval aviation) and other areas. I had tremendous opportunities to be on board, to land on a carrier, to spend real time getting to know folks from flag officers down to ordinary seamen. But I never mistake my experience for having even a single day of actual naval service. Deepest thanks to those who have been "haze grey and underway."
I was a reporter during the time of the Stark incident (87), the Iowa turret explosion (89) and during Tailhook (91?). I think it's key to note that those Iowa explosion, for example, was nearly 30 years ago. I agree that the culture inside the Navy at that time was NOT one that always favored transparency or honest self assessment. The Navy, for understandable reasons, has always been the armed service where traditions have had the greatest impact on practice -- for good and for ill. (The push-pull between deep dedication to the honor of the service versus the risk of becoming hidebound is always there.)
But I think (and certainly hope) that the Navy is a different place in that regard. It hasn't had a choice.
I'm not as dug into that world now as I once was, but I am hearing honest discussions about how the Fitz and the McCain collisions occurred. The NYT article cited above is evidence that these discussions are underway in a more open manner than before.
[I had an interesting conversation with a buddy about what the current inquiry would look like is Elmo Zumwalt were still CNO. Imagine the Z-grams on this.]

 

[oldmojo]

What I remember most about Zumwalt was being allowed to grow a beard whilst in uniform.

 

[tslex]

oldmojo, that was Z-gram 57: "Elimination of demeaning or abrasive regulations"

 

[mso489]

Adm. Zumwalt provided brilliant leadership when the Navy and civilian society were in deep throes of schism. I was permitted to grow a mustache. I was eventually moved from radioman aboard ship to journalist on Midway Island, a kind of transition that is almost unheard of even today. That was all CNO Adm. Zumwalt's doing. Years later as a communications person in health research, I spoke briefly with Adm. Zumwalt who was contacting us about ongoing research on Agent Orange, which apparently shortened his son's life after he served in Vietnam. After I identified myself as a Navy vet, momentarily and a little dreamily he said something like, those were exciting times. Through all of the fog of war and losses, he managed that vein of optimism. I covered my turbulent mixed emotions and agreed with him that they were truly exciting times.

 

[tbradsim1]

I lost my best friend to Agent Orange , his wife asked me to dress him, I put his Oklahoma T-Shirt on then his suit, he never was a suit guy . Fun fact, if you can have that in death, he was a Helicopter Pilot, flew thru a lot of Agent Orange, he told me he shot his own Helicopter down, shot his 45 out the window, it hit the tail rotor and Bam CRASH. He was a great guy, I watched him dwindle to nothing. Sorry old memories

 

[mso489]

Brad, I'm sorry about your friend. That Agent Orange was a pact with the devil; the short term advantage of clearing jungle came back in horrible ways. Your friend had the right stuff, gutsy. Amazing story.

 

[tslex]

mso, that's a great story about Z.
tbrad, so sorry about your friend.
Thanks to all here who served.