Monthly Home Blending Winning Recipes from the '40's

[Papamique]

interesting read and discussion! I am just going to go with Macbarron HH burley for the Selbur as it is not only mild(ish) it is also higher grade good burley leaf. Not that others aren’t but it is the closest one to Selbur that is also my best burley.

The Union Square is also a straight Virginia that is high grade and both HH burley and US are devoid toppings so again it won’t be exactly the same but using the recipe as a guide it will most likely be good if not great.

I can’t stand Latakia any more but I have some Latakia blending leaf left so I’ll make a very small amount with Latakia and in the other batch I will be substituting a dark fired leaf as it’s the only substitute I can think of that’s close. I will also try, as you natsherman, to do a small batch without any Latakia substitute and use your proportions in the OP for that.

I’m going to go mix some up and smoke it now.

 

[canucklehead]

Ok I made a super tiny test batch out of components I had sitting within reach of my chair, we'll see how this turns out.

I used 6 parts of a vaper I make instead of 4 parts Virginia 2 parts perique. It is approximately ⅓ perique so the math works. It is D&R 3 Sails, D&R Windsail, and Sutliff perique (hence the name 4 Sails).

Instead of white burley I used D&R Two Timer, and for the "Selbur" I used a pressed multi-burley blend I made that is mostly dark burley and unflavoured burley Cavendish. I used C&D Latakia.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Sounds a lot like C&D's "Bailey's Front Porch" which, despite being named as an English blend, is definitely a burley/American blend.

https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipe-tobacco/cornell-diehl/baileys-front-porch-2oz/product_id/211046

I instantly thought the same too. However i think the recipe for Bailey’s is more like this:

• burley: 2 parts (12.5%)
• bright: 4 parts (25%)
• Latakia: 8 parts (50%)
• Perique: 2 parts (12.5%

@shermnatman the light aromatic reference is in the blend’s description you are following, not in selbur’s description.

In regards to cavendish, I feel I should be clearer and say “cavendish processed”. So the final product doesn’t necessarily have to be an unsweetened goopy mess, but rather, more like the base of most OTC or Danish burley blends on the market.

This is what I was trying to suggest with the slow cooker. Putting toppings aside, you would be taking something like C&D dark burley and knocking off the rough edges and ending up with something closer to amphora burley. (Very basic comparison)

A massive caveat however. I am personally not familiar with all of the commercial blending components you are playing with. Some of the stuff may already have been processed in this manner (think Sutliff’s burley delight) and is good to go!

Keep it up Sherm the blending shaman

 

[shermnatman]

513AAA Bulk - SUTLIFF

Extremely subtle Burley Blend. Unflavored. Pleasant burn aroma.

sutliff-tobacco.com

Nice choice, Brother T'Scopes.

For those not already familiar, here is the description of Sutliff 513AAA Burley Bulk Blend, and save everyone the trouble of looking it up:

Sutliff 513AAA: Sutliff 1-lb 513AAA Bulk premium pipe tobacco is an expertly blended mixture of #1 Grade American AAA Burley, unflavored and cased to sweeten and darken the tobacco to deliver an extremely subtle Burley blend with a pleasant aroma

I would say that for a no-fuss 'Drop-in Substitute' for whatever SelBur actually was, provided:

a) YOU are happy with it;

And,

b) YOU feel good about using it as your SelBur into the future;

And,

c) YOU feel it comes as close to SelBur's Tin Description of: "...an EXCEPTIONALLY MILD smoke..." by your palate and sensibilities and desires, then by all means, imo Go For It!

I also included 513AAA in my initial conception of what I imagine Selbur could, should, or even might be similar to; however, as I posted earlier, I am playing with the idea of using 3 different light Sutliff Burley products - White, AAA, Medium Burley or 513AAA, ALL at or under the Medium mark, so that with 3 components I have the ability to adjust the base blend I will choose as my own version of whatever SelBur actually may have been.

I am sure many folks would not care to enjoy being as fiddley I might enjoy being ; and for them, I would say your idea simply going with a pre-blend like 513AAA is as good as any other AND requires no additional blending, tasting, and tweaking to create.

Yours could turn out to be a most excellent choice, Brother T'Scopes. - Sherm Natman

 

[telescopes]

Nice choice, Brother T'Scopes.

For those not already familiar, here is the description of Sutliff 513AAA Burley Bulk Blend, and save everyone the trouble of looking it up:

Sutliff 513AAA: Sutliff 1-lb 513AAA Bulk premium pipe tobacco is an expertly blended mixture of #1 Grade American AAA Burley, unflavored and cased to sweeten and darken the tobacco to deliver an extremely subtle Burley blend with a pleasant aroma

I would say that for a no-fuss 'Drop-in Substitute' for whatever SelBur actually was, provided:

a) YOU are happy with it;

And,

b) YOU feel good about using it as your SelBur into the future;

And,

c) YOU feel it comes as close to SelBur's Tin Description of: "...an EXCEPTIONALLY MILD smoke..." by your palate and sensibilities and desires, then by all means, imo Go For It!

I also included 513AAA in my initial conception of what I imagine Selbur could, should, or even might be similar to; however, as I posted earlier, I am playing with the idea of using 3 different light Sutliff Burley products - White, AAA, Medium Burley or 513AAA, ALL at or under the Medium mark, so that with 3 components I have the ability to adjust the base blend I will choose as my own version of whatever SelBur actually may have been.

I am sure many folks would not care to enjoy being as fiddley I might enjoy being ; and for them, I would say your idea simply going with a pre-blend like 513AAA is as good as any other AND requires no additional blending, tasting, and tweaking to create.

Yours could turn out to be a most excellent choice, Brother T'Scopes. - Sherm Natman

I love the idea of creating a Selbur, but I am currently overwhelmed with so many projects, I don't believe I have the energy it will require. However, I am hoping maybe you might just nail the formula. We might want to create a list of individuals who are creating this blend and then do a "share" one pipe load or so, with each other and create a compilation of the comments and observations. I apologize in advance with any repetitive comments that reproduce what you may have already stated earlier. I have so much catching up to do, I have become a bit sloppy in my readings of posts.

 

[shermnatman]

interesting read and discussion! I am just going to go with Macbarron HH burley for the Selbur as it is not only mild(ish) it is also higher grade good burley leaf. Not that others aren’t but it is the closest one to Selbur that is also my best burley.

The Union Square is also a straight Virginia that is high grade and both HH burley and US are devoid toppings so again it won’t be exactly the same but using the recipe as a guide it will most likely be good if not great.

I can’t stand Latakia any more but I have some Latakia blending leaf left so I’ll make a very small amount with Latakia and in the other batch I will be substituting a dark fired leaf as it’s the only substitute I can think of that’s close. I will also try, as you natsherman, to do a small batch without any Latakia substitute and use your proportions in the OP for that.

I’m going to go mix some up and smoke it now.

@Papamique - Yes! All excellent decisions I would say!

The only thing we learned as a fact yesterday was that where these guys who were working out of the MIddleton Home Blending Kit - tell-tale is the call for SelBur, AND, they merely have the description of "Virginia" called for on the recipe, we now know that is short-hand for Bright Virginia Granulated

I don't think I have ever seen Bright Virginia in Granulated form offered at the bulk distributor level before; you?

So you are going with GLP's Union Square Flake as your GoTo "Virginia" and I will be going with some TBA ratio of a blend of Sutliff Bright TS1 Virgina and Sutliff Yellow TS1Y VIrginia - Both Ribbons - as my GoTo "Virginia" .

I will forgo using any TS1R Red Ribbons after learning what the MIddleton "Virginia" actually was as supplied in the Kit.

I also, like you, will "take one for the team" and create a small sample with Sutliff Blending Latakia, just to see where M.B. White, of Des Moines, Iowa, was at with his award-winning JAN1946 Burley Blend.

And, like you, I also chose to go with Dark Fired Kentucky Burley as my preferred stand-in to create a No-Lat version - so that will be another small sample.

And, since I am really not into anything 'smokey-flavored' at the current time, I am going to make my final small sample with Sutliff Dark Burley - believe it or not - as my 'wink and nod' substitute for the original Latakia proportion.

Again, soley to avoid any "smokey" ingredients.

As a bonus, the Dark Burley should hopefully/thankfully give me some added Nicotine, which is always one of my personal main goals with most any blend; and, keep this recreation in the "Mild, not Wild" category.

Very cool stuff, Gentlemen - Sherm Natman

 

[telescopes]

Blending Tobaccos - ordered.

The only question I have is how close the SelBur and my choice of standard burley will be to each other. I am confident that the Virginia Slices will be a close neighbor of whatever they were using. I can tear them up to be granulated? I have found Virginia Slices is a good blending tobacco for Virginia based recipes. We will see.

My plan is to mix and jar the tobaccos next week. If anyone else is interested in the project and willing to share their results and would like a pipe load sent to them, let me know.

I see this as a possible way for us to norm our taste scores with each other.

 

[shermnatman]

I instantly thought the same too. However i think the recipe for Bailey’s is more like this:

• burley: 2 parts (12.5%)
• bright: 4 parts (25%)
• Latakia: 8 parts (50%)
• Perique: 2 parts (12.5%

@shermnatman the light aromatic reference is in the blend’s description you are following, not in selbur’s description.

In regards to cavendish, I feel I should be clearer and say “cavendish processed”. So the final product doesn’t necessarily have to be an unsweetened goopy mess, but rather, more like the base of most OTC or Danish burley blends on the market.

This is what I was trying to suggest with the slow cooker. Putting toppings aside, you would be taking something like C&D dark burley and knocking off the rough edges and ending up with something closer to amphora burley. (Very basic comparison)

A massive caveat however. I am personally not familiar with all of the commercial blending components you are playing with. Some of the stuff may already have been processed in this manner (think Sutliff’s burley delight) and is good to go!

Keep it up Sherm the blending shaman

M.B. White's JAN1946. ......... vs .................... C&D Front Porch Estimate by @Ahi Ka
1p Latakia ....................................................... 8p Latakia
8p Burley (total) ...................................,......... 2p Burley

and

4p Bright Virgina, Granulated ...................... 4p Virginia
2p Perique, Granulated ................................. 2p Perique

The Base of these blends appear to be near total mirror-inversion of each other, and only sharing the Virginia Semi-Base and Perique Flavoring Condiment in equal proportions.


On "Light Aromatic" - Ah, I was wondering where that came from. Yes, it's a good clue; but, we don't know if the person using that term is doing so to describe the finished blend pouch note and room note, OR, if he's classifying the finished blend as a Type.

On "Cavendish" - Yes, was right there with you regarding as a Process, not a flavoring. That's what made me consider perhaps they could have used of low-grade Burley leaf, then Cavendished as a process, - essentially creating a Black Cav - to inexpensively bulk-up the volume of SelBur and without affecting it's profile with flavoring added, spread the flavors of the the other more flavorful Burleys, and thicken up the smoke; by using unsweetened or lightly sweetened Dark Burley Cav. - Sounds very plausible to me.

On Sutliff Ingredients: Hard to say; and, as they have so many different offerings, some may, some may not.

I do not know if this is correct or not; but, I seem to recall hearing something about even the most straight of tabaks - not just speaking of Sutliff here - and with the exclusion of raw leaf - are often given even a very light shot of a sugar solution at some part of their journey through a blending house.

So, should we consider that as 'Processed'?

I don't know.

On "Shamanism": Hardly LOL! We are all - I presume - just Beginner Blenders who are learning and sharing. What's cool is doing it togethe here. No sane person would ever confuse me for a Jeremy Reeves, a Per Gorg Jensen or a Russ Ouellette !

And, ALWAYS Remember: You are talking with a guy who got kicked out of school for cheating on his Final Exam in Metaphysical Philosophy, by trying to look into the soul of boy sitting next to him. - Sherm Natman

 

[Ahi Ka]

The provenance of the Bailey’s front porch blend ratios is not my own, but one discussed over at the ftt forums.

As for cavendish/cavendish processing, it is not necessary to only use it as a way of making crap leaf palatable. One of the things which makes C&D’s Pegasus and Winchester quintessential blends is their green river (?) burley natural cavendish. Any generic leaf can be made to taste like sweetened cavendish, but in my opinion, quality leaf makes quality natural cavendish relying on the underlying sweetness and flavours of the tobacco itself.

Haha, yeah i flunked one of my metaphysics exams too. I had to write 1000 words on whether we had free will. I wrote “yes”.

 

[Brendan]

"yes" are a good band too but the answer is "rush".

Signed, Ahi's professor.

 

[shermnatman]

Blending Tobaccos - ordered.

The only question I have is how close the SelBur and my choice of standard burley will be to each other. I am confident that the Virginia Slices will be a close neighbor of whatever they were using. I can tear them up to be granulated? I have found Virginia Slices is a good blending tobacco for Virginia based recipes. We will see.

My plan is to mix and jar the tobaccos next week. If anyone else is interested in the project and willing to share their results and would like a pipe load sent to them, let me know.

I see this as a possible way for us to norm our taste scores with each other.

Yes, Brother, definitely Granulate, IF you want the same 'cut' as was most-likely used - as that's how the "Virginia" was supplied in the Middleton Kit - as Bright Virginia Granulated - going with the clue that since M.B. White used in his recipe all the exact generic names - including SelBur - therefore, most likely working out of the MIddleton Blending Kit.

Unless we get a servicable answer from Middleton, or someone unearths a sealed old tin, this Mystery will forever plague us and loom larger.

However, I feel strongly you choice is simply substituting Sutlff 513AAA Mild Burley Blend, is an excellent, excellent idea.

Yes, I should hope that we all want to read each other's recreation recopies of JAN1946 and our results, Should be a blast to whip-up the other guy's version of JAN1946 and compare notes and feedback. - Sherm Natman

 

[shermnatman]

The provenance of the Bailey’s front porch blend ratios is not my own, but one discussed over at the ftt forums.

As for cavendish/cavendish processing, it is not necessary to only use it as a way of making crap leaf palatable. One of the things which makes C&D’s Pegasus and Winchester quintessential blends is their green river (?) burley natural cavendish. Any generic leaf can be made to taste like sweetened cavendish, but in my opinion, quality leaf makes quality natural cavendish relying on the underlying sweetness and flavours of the tobacco itself.

Haha, yeah i flunked one of my metaphysics exams too. I had to write 1000 words on whether we had free will. I wrote “yes”.

On Baileys: Check. Good citation.

On Cav: Agreed. As much as I am lovingly addicted to PA is my Daily Bread smoke, I just can't see Middleton as an OTC Mfg, using the same quality level of leaf which a C&D would use for it's Black Cavendish.

As a side note: Once I land on my Sutfill recreated version of JAN1946, as I have all those same components in my Blender Cabinet from C&D, I will duplicate it and compare the two version - flavor and cost - side-by-side. That should also prove very interesting.

On Exams: Good one! - Sherm Natman

 

[telescopes]

I wonder if we can send final samples into Jim for evaluation. It would be an interesting way to get a common baseline on what we are creating.

 

[telescopes]

From ChatGPT:
Selbur is a discontinued blend made by Middleton, which was a combination of Burley and Virginia tobaccos. Middleton described Selbur as having a mild and mellow taste, with a pleasant aroma. The exact proportions of the two types of tobacco in Selbur and the specific processing techniques used by Middleton to create the blend are not publicly disclosed.

It's worth noting that Selbur was discontinued by Middleton in the early 2000s, and it may be difficult to find in the market today.

 

[Papamique]

FUN- I dug out many, if not all, of my long lost blending tobaccos and some whole leaf. I used to blend a lot but then got lazy. This has encouraged me to get back into it a bit and I must say I am having a blast. I went with this to start:

2 Part: Perique
6 Part: White Burley Ribbons
3 Part: Bright Virginia
3 Part: Red Virginia
6 Part: C&D's Burley Ribbon Cut Blend

Then subbed HH burley for the C&D burley ribbon cut and US for the bright and red and tried that.

Then went with the Latakia proportions you suggested and tried that

Then subbed dark fired for Latakia in that blend.

I made up about 1/2 oz of each (little less for the Latakia) and smoked a bowl of each.

I have no idea how close or far these are from the original published version but I don’t care much about that either because they ALL tasted great and interesting with the dark fired being my favorite with the US and HH burley/Perique being a close second.

I also have some dark burley and will try some of that too tomorrow or maybe tonight. It’s a good use for these blending tobaccos sitting around collecting dust and it is damn good fun. It takes a bit of time but worth the enjoyment I got.

I especially liked the burley forward but more interesting than plain HH burley which is damn good in its own right. I don’t know what the point of all this was supposed to be but if it was to try some blending and have fun smoking it then mission accomplished.

 

[Singularis]

I used the proportions pretty much by the book with the substitution I mentioned above (MB Symphony instead of Selbur). For the Virginia portion, I used half C&D Red Ribbon, half “Yellow Ribbon”, which might be Sutliff or a P&C product (it was a hand me down from an acquaintance), though it seemed not a lot different from the Red VA. I wish I had some C&D Bright still and will have to get more in my next order. It’s a really outstanding product.

Anyway, all mixed up it’s about 1.8 oz and smells fantastic and reminds me of other C&D’s with burley and perique. The added Latakia should give it nice depth and pizazz. Can’t wait to try it.

 

[shermnatman]

From ChatGPT:
Selbur is a discontinued blend made by Middleton, which was a combination of Burley and Virginia tobaccos.

Now... Isn't THAT interesting!!!

Back from Post #28....

"Again, as you quite rightly said, we are left purely with assumptions.

As it see it, we only have 2 Solid Clues:

1. SelBur was mostly Burley - But that doesn't automatically mean that's all that's in there. After all, it is a 'Blend'. And, the easy thing to do is 'assume' it's all Burley, and nothing but Burleys... however, there is a difference between "Selected Beef Hot Dogs" and "100% All Beef Hot Dogs".

Wouldn't be funny if we found out that SelBur actually contained x-amount of high-sugar Virginia to add sweetness, as a 'Flavoring Tobacco' - and, by-passing Semi-Base status altogether - rather than using an even higher-sugar concentration casing, as part of it's "Mostly" Burley Blend.

Truth could end up Stranger than Fiction."


So if that report "ChatGDP" is accurate, it would seem Truth IS stranger than Fiction - Sherm Natman

 

[shermnatman]

SOME QUICK REFERENCE TIPS:

1. Glass Ball Mason Jars: For the benefit of those who may not already know, and might be buying Bulk Blending components for the first time to create a Blending Tobacco Inventory, and may also end-up creating Small Batch samples of Home Blending recipes beyond the weight of a few grams of their experimental/testing batch weights, here's a general guide of Ball mason jar sizes - which are measured and identified in fluid ounces - that are usually well suited for the number of ounces by weight of your tobaccos.

Basically divide the Jar ounces by 4 and that should give you an idea which size jar is likely needed to store your supply in.

BALL MASON JAR .............................. TOBACCO
64 ounce ..... will generally hold ..... 16 ounces
32 ounce ..... will generally hold ..... 8 ounces
16 ounce ..... will generally hold ..... 4 ounces
8 ounce ..... will generally hold ..... 2 ounces
4 ounce ..... will generally hold ..... 1 ounce

2. Sugar vs Nicotine: Generally speaking, the higher the presence of natural Sugar in a leaf the lower the Nicotine; and the Higher the Nicotine present in a leaf, the lower the Sugar.

3. Nicotine Contribution Scale: If like me, you love your Vitamin-N - or, you might want to downplay the amount of Nicotine in your Home Blending creations - here's a very rough scale - with overlap in between tobaccos - to give you a sense of generally how much or how little Nicotine a recipe might be offering by looking at the components involved.

Again, this is a very generalized thumb-nail guide with plenty of overlap between tobaccos in reality:

Lower in Nicotine (1) to Higher in Nicotine (8):

1. Orientals and Latakia
2. Cavendish
3. Bright Virginia
4. White Burley
5. Red Virginia
6. Dark Burley
7. Perique
8. Dark Fired Kentucky Burley

Personally, I find it very interesting that if we look near the dead-center-area of the scale, we see that old familiar OTC pouch description of a base of Burley (#4) and 2 Virginias (#3 and #5).

Here's an interesting little game:

1. Take any 3 neighboring neighboring and adjacent numbers - e.g.: #2, #3, and #4 or #3, #4, and #5 - and off the top of your head - considering only the basics, not the toppings or tertiary components - and name the first product that jumps into your mind based on that grouping.

Or,

2. Look over the written catalog descriptions of some very popular blends, and see if they tend to fall in adjacent number groupings - e.g.: "...an unapologetically strong Burley-based blend that is slightly sweetened by the addition of red Virginia and spiced up and deepened by including the Cajun delicacy, Perique..."

That would be #6, #5, and #7, as presented in the text - or arranged in numerical order: #'5, #6, and #7 - all adjacent.

And, that would also be the catalog description for Haunted Bookshop.

Or,

3. Really stretch and see what blend comes to mind that you like which might have two adjacent base components, and, one component off towards the other end of the scale like a counter balance - e.g. : #2, #3, and #7 - or - #1 offset by #5 and #6.

What blends do those combinations sound like to you?

Check it out, it's a lot of fun; and, it sort reminds me of when they introduced us to the Primary and Secondary Color Wheel in Art Class.

If anything, it should get the wheels turning. - Sherm Natman

 

[shermnatman]

My selections of C&D and Sutliff Base and Blending Tabaks, and Digital Scale on my Blender's Bench



Wide-Mouth is the way to go:


NOTE: While the 4x Jar-size to ounces of Tabak guide is usually correct, I forgot to mention two points:

1. When it comes to Loose Flake, Rough, or Large Flake Cut tabaks - versus Ribbons - loose Flake tends to require the next sized UP jar. In the picture below, both tabaks shown below are 2 ounces of Red Virginia; however, while 2 ounces of Ribbon cut fits well into a small 8 ounce Ball jar - as is the Rule-of-Thumb - the Red Virginia Loose Flake (and all other Flake/Rough cut) requires the next size up jar - being the medium-sized 16 ounce size.


Hope this helps people plan correctly when determining which sized jars they need and having them on-hand, BEFORE any new Base and Blending tabaks arrive in the mail. - Sherm Natman.

 

[rmbittner]

This thread suggests why three different companies can try to replicate the original Balkan Sobranie…and the results all end up tasting different and, usually, not much like the original. And you guys started with what sounded like a very simple, straightforward recipe that an average pipe smoker put together. I never would have imagined all of the challenges, guesswork, and assumptions you’d encounter.