Metal Bands and Caps

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DotAndBang’sPipes

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 27, 2016
226
538
43
Orlando, FL
I have checked the Forum for this discussion and, while I've come across a few posts, I just have a hunch there might be more specific information available from the collective group here that's worth conjuring up. Maybe not, but it's worth a shot.

I'm not a pipe repair man but lately I've been experimenting with some old pipes that are wonderful smokers but not very pleasant to behold. I've rusticated some. I've sanded down others. And now I'd like to try and experiment with decorative metal bands AND/OR caps. I know JHLowe and Vermont Freehand have options available in a variety of sizes. Are those two sites my main/only options?

Could I find any materials worth playing with at Hobby Lobby or ACE or LOWES to make some bands/caps? That would give me a chance to experiment without making a large order and then screwing them all up :)
 
I am currently being treated for metal allergies because of tinkering around with nickel and working white gold with nickel. My first suggestion is that you are safer eating lead than working with nickel. Throw that shit away.
I take 9 allergy meds now. You don’t want that. The safety equipment and vacuum system you’d need to work nickel isn’t worth the pennies you’d make.

Silver is not terribly expensive. Take some silver courses, and don’t cut corners on safety.

There are also premade bands out there.

But, if you have questions about metalsmithing and silver work, let me know. I’m glad to help.
 

AroEnglish

Rehabilitant
Jan 7, 2020
5,150
15,141
#62
I am currently being treated for metal allergies because of tinkering around with nickel and working white gold with nickel. My first suggestion is that you are safer eating lead than working with nickel. Throw that shit away.
I take 9 allergy meds now. You don’t want that. The safety equipment and vacuum system you’d need to work nickel isn’t worth the pennies you’d make.

Silver is not terribly expensive. Take some silver courses, and don’t cut corners on safety.

There are also premade bands out there.

But, if you have questions about metalsmithing and silver work, let me know. I’m glad to help.
Well, that’s squashes any interest I have in working with nickel. Thanks for the sage wisdom.
 
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swilford

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 30, 2010
209
747
Longs, SC
corporate.laudisi.com
I am currently being treated for metal allergies because of tinkering around with nickel and working white gold with nickel. My first suggestion is that you are safer eating lead than working with nickel. Throw that shit away.
I take 9 allergy meds now. You don’t want that. The safety equipment and vacuum system you’d need to work nickel isn’t worth the pennies you’d make.

Silver is not terribly expensive. Take some silver courses, and don’t cut corners on safety.

There are also premade bands out there.

But, if you have questions about metalsmithing and silver work, let me know. I’m glad to help.

I'm sure you know all of this, but figured it might help the OP to contextualize your post:

The element Nickel (Ni) is different from what is normally called Nickel, or nickel silver (also called German Silver), in the pipe world, which is an alloy, which is about 20% Nickel, 60% Copper and 20% Zinc.

I'm not sure what you were working with, but there's a big difference between working with Nickel and working with Nickel Silver. Of course, it also depends on your allergies, since some are allergic to nickel, but too much copper in the right circumstances can also cause allergic reactions.

Sykes
 
I'm sure you know all of this, but figured it might help the OP to contextualize your post:

The element Nickel (Ni) is different from what is normally called Nickel, or nickel silver (also called German Silver), in the pipe world, which is an alloy, which is about 20% Nickel, 60% Copper and 20% Zinc.

I'm not sure what you were working with, but there's a big difference between working with Nickel and working with Nickel Silver. Of course, it also depends on your allergies, since some are allergic to nickel, but too much copper in the right circumstances can also cause allergic reactions.

Sykes
True, for context… it is common in the jewelry industry for jewelers to develop an allergy to nickel from just working with white golds, which is merely 25% nickel at most and 10% in the least alloy. It is mandatory in stores to have protections from the metal dusts. The metal I used for a bit was german silver, which is a white bronze we use to make mock ups because it melts so easily and you can build prototypes very easily. I worked with this metal when designing eyewear henges for the industry. In storefronts, everything has vacuum ports and dust collectors to minimize risks. No dust escapes into the air. When I built my own home studio in a separate building from the home, I priced systems at 9 to $10,000 and then put it off till later. 8 years later and I still haven’t, and I’m paying the consequences. All of that time, white gold was the only metal with nickel I was using.
I have had some pure nickel stock that I was going to use for a project, but it is an impossible metal to work with. So, my exposure to that was very brief.

About four years ago, I started getting rashes and a cough, and after dermatologists, general doctors, ran out of options, they sent me to an allergist. And, I’ve had extensive tests done to find every allergy. The type I have is not one that is born with, but developed from exposure. The allergist believes that it is the alloys mentioned that cause the most exposure. Even buttons and those metal studs in bluejeans cause me to have reactions now.

Copper is ify also. Pure copper is rare to come across. Most of that also has a touch of nickel.

Unless you are alredy allergic to nickel, touching a german silver band is not going to give you an allergy. But, if you are heating, sanding, and polishing german silver you are breathing the dust, unless you have a hepa filtration dust collection system with ports to collect dust as you work.

So, for a small time home studio, or working in a garage, I do not recommend nickel silver for band production.
Not when silver is very affordable. Sterling is $30ish an oz, and every part, scrap, and dust can be easily melted and reused. Even if one used Riogrande to buy sheet stock to make bands, you can send scraps back to Rio when you place your next order.

Now, this is my experience. I am not narcissistic enough to think that I have the power to stop anyone from doing what they are going to do. I set up my studio without a dust system against better advise. Guys are hard headed. I know this. It is your risk. However, I merely advise that people taking the risk make themself aware of the risks.

But, do consider sterling. Many people look at metal prices and turn away before they actually give it a chance. Sterling is so easy to manipulate and makes beautiful bands and spigots. Plus, you get your money back when make a sale. Unless your devoted to serving the homeless decorating their cobs, sterling is a very reasonable choice.

And, I have some books to recommend to get you started. The Complete Metalsmith by Tom McCreight. He uses easy to understand drawings, and many tools can be made easily. That is the best book to get started with. I can rec more if needed, just DM me.
 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
19,000
13,036
Covington, Louisiana
postimg.cc
True, for context… it is common in the jewelry industry for jewelers to develop an allergy to nickel from just working with white golds, which is merely 25% nickel at most and 10% in the least alloy. It is mandatory in stores to have protections from the metal dusts. The metal I used for a bit was german silver, which is a white bronze we use to make mock ups because it melts so easily and you can build prototypes very easily. I worked with this metal when designing eyewear henges for the industry. In storefronts, everything has vacuum ports and dust collectors to minimize risks. No dust escapes into the air. When I built my own home studio in a separate building from the home, I priced systems at 9 to $10,000 and then put it off till later. 8 years later and I still haven’t, and I’m paying the consequences. All of that time, white gold was the only metal with nickel I was using.
I have had some pure nickel stock that I was going to use for a project, but it is an impossible metal to work with. So, my exposure to that was very brief.

About four years ago, I started getting rashes and a cough, and after dermatologists, general doctors, ran out of options, they sent me to an allergist. And, I’ve had extensive tests done to find every allergy. The type I have is not one that is born with, but developed from exposure. The allergist believes that it is the alloys mentioned that cause the most exposure. Even buttons and those metal studs in bluejeans cause me to have reactions now.

Copper is ify also. Pure copper is rare to come across. Most of that also has a touch of nickel.

Unless you are alredy allergic to nickel, touching a german silver band is not going to give you an allergy. But, if you are heating, sanding, and polishing german silver you are breathing the dust, unless you have a hepa filtration dust collection system with ports to collect dust as you work.

So, for a small time home studio, or working in a garage, I do not recommend nickel silver for band production.
Not when silver is very affordable. Sterling is $30ish an oz, and every part, scrap, and dust can be easily melted and reused. Even if one used Riogrande to buy sheet stock to make bands, you can send scraps back to Rio when you place your next order.

Now, this is my experience. I am not narcissistic enough to think that I have the power to stop anyone from doing what they are going to do. I set up my studio without a dust system against better advise. Guys are hard headed. I know this. It is your risk. However, I merely advise that people taking the risk make themself aware of the risks.

But, do consider sterling. Many people look at metal prices and turn away before they actually give it a chance. Sterling is so easy to manipulate and makes beautiful bands and spigots. Plus, you get your money back when make a sale. Unless your devoted to serving the homeless decorating their cobs, sterling is a very reasonable choice.

And, I have some books to recommend to get you started. The Complete Metalsmith by Tom McCreight. He uses easy to understand drawings, and many tools can be made easily. That is the best book to get started with. I can rec more if needed, just DM me.
I don't have any interest in doing this kind of work, but fascinating to read about! (man, are we weirdo's or what?). Thanks for creating such a detailed response.
 
One other aspect of nickel silvers or white bronzes is that the pickle used tor remove the flux after welding or soldering will stain the metal, turning it a black or grey, very ugly stuff. So, you’ll end up using a rotary tool to fix your welds. Without a port system to suck away the dust, it will blow right into your face. Nickel alloys, in your eyes and nose. Theres really going to be no other way. So…
 
I don't have any interest in doing this kind of work, but fascinating to read about! (man, are we weirdo's or what?). Thanks for creating such a detailed response.
Thank you Al. I enjoy discussing metals. I don’t get as much chances to do thay since I left Ganoksin. Oh, and if anyone is interested in working with metals check out their website. Lots of great instructional videos. And, joining them has many advantages.

You get to talk with so many experts of so many creative areas of metals. From knife to jewelry makers. And, going to a Ganoksin event gives you opportunities to meet these metallurgists and geniuses. It’s like a pipe show for metal geeks, ha ha.
 

swilford

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 30, 2010
209
747
Longs, SC
corporate.laudisi.com
True, for context… it is common in the jewelry industry for jewelers to develop an allergy to nickel from just working with white golds, which is merely 25% nickel at most and 10% in the least alloy. It is mandatory in stores to have protections from the metal dusts. The metal I used for a bit was german silver, which is a white bronze we use to make mock ups because it melts so easily and you can build prototypes very easily. I worked with this metal when designing eyewear henges for the industry. In storefronts, everything has vacuum ports and dust collectors to minimize risks....

Wow. Thanks for sharing all of that. I didn't know that about white gold.

I should have added to my post that I totally echo your recommendation on sterling silver. $30/ounce might sound like a lot, but it takes less than a tenth of an ounce for a pretty hefty band. It's just not expensive in this context.

As sort of a funny aside, we realized last year when the Dublin assay office raised fees that we (Peterson) were paying more for very small silver bands to be assayed (as required by Irish law, but also just cool) than the silver itself was worth...

Sykes
 

Briarcutter

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 17, 2023
577
3,939
U.S.A.
I have checked the Forum for this discussion and, while I've come across a few posts, I just have a hunch there might be more specific information available from the collective group here that's worth conjuring up. Maybe not, but it's worth a shot.

I'm not a pipe repair man but lately I've been experimenting with some old pipes that are wonderful smokers but not very pleasant to behold. I've rusticated some. I've sanded down others. And now I'd like to try and experiment with decorative metal bands AND/OR caps. I know JHLowe and Vermont Freehand have options available in a variety of sizes. Are those two sites my main/only options?

Could I find any materials worth playing with at Hobby Lobby or ACE or LOWES to make some bands/caps? That would give me a chance to experiment without making a large order and then screwing them all up :)
Could be a future pipe maker here!
 

milk

Lifer
Sep 21, 2022
1,107
2,832
Japan
I was cleaning a century-old KB&B Borkum yesterday and the nickel doesn’t respond quite like anything else. Neither the metal cleaner nor the silver cloth does the job exactly and it seems like vigorous rubbing keeps taking an endless amount of black off the band. It shines up a bit but there’s always more black that will come off.
 
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mortonbriar

Lifer
Oct 25, 2013
2,795
6,100
New Zealand
One other aspect of nickel silvers or white bronzes is that the pickle used tor remove the flux after welding or soldering will stain the metal, turning it a black or grey, very ugly stuff. So, you’ll end up using a rotary tool to fix your welds. Without a port system to suck away the dust, it will blow right into your face. Nickel alloys, in your eyes and nose. Theres really going to be no other way. So…
When I was a jeweller, I had two little computer fans set up on one side of the desk at face level to blow the dust away from my face. It was not a 100% fix, but it blew the bulk (of what I might normally be breathing in) just past my face, to land on the desk. I found it mostly effective for the light dust from the little rotary abrasives, I cant remember what they are called now, but they were grey, black, blue and pink according to grit...
 
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