Meat For the Duke Street Irregulars

[huntertrw]

"All this being said, I think George is asking about the dating of the pipe in the OP."
Mr. Loring's "SHELL FINISH PATENT NOMENCLATURE USAGE" chart (Ref. Pages 58 and 59 of his aforementioned book) indicates that this particular combination of U.S. Patent Numbers, combined with the "DUNHILL'S "SHELL" MADE IN ENGLAND" stamping (with the latter all on the same line), was used from 1927 through 1933. Earlier I stated that this indicated only 1927, and that was wrong.

 

[dmcmtk]

One thing I want to make clear, is I don't know the answer to the inner tube/shell category question. I'm only responding, and asking questions myself. Yesterday, I was talking to another piper discussing this, and we were both wondering why Dunhill would have employees evaluating Shell finishes...all the pipes were priced the same, and there never seemed to be a grading in regard to the Shell finish, so why would Dunhill pay for the man hours involved in this. Conversely, if a batch of a certain shape were made, let's just say LB's, they would all take the same spec. Inner Tube, and be marked that way. Note the 313/24 from 1945 posted by tridens above.

 

[dmcmtk]

...as the copy states that a package contains eight tubes.

Another little tidbit, back in 1927, 1/- bought you 12. Page 47.
http://www.finepipes.com/gallery/dunhill-about-smoke.html
Also of note, in the 1927 About Smoke catalog, the Shell pipes are indeed referenced by Roman numerals.

 

[tridens]

In my (admittedly limited) experience, the "21" and "24" stampings do seem relatively common.
Here's a 1927 SU 21 with the date stamped on the lower line:

 

[tridens]

For comparison, here's a 1930 LB 8:

 

[tridens]

Sometimes Bruyeres from the same period have what appear to be Inner Tube stampings, though. Here's the nomenclature of a 1920-21 HWo MO Squat Bulldog:

 

[tridens]

(I hope Steve doesn't mind me posting his photo, above.)
Anyway, the packets can also be confusing:

 

[huntertrw]

tridens:
Thank-you for the image (above) of the label referencing the Dunhill Inner Tube, and for the elucidation that it imparted. Now I wonder upon what the numbering scheme was based?

 

[georged]

I just heard back from the pipe's owner about the last character of the second line.
This is his response:

it is a 7. The stem also has a number. It is Reg No 654638 or 654658 (not sure if it is a 3 or a 5)

 

[huntertrw]

"I just heard back from the pipe's owner about the last character of the second line.
This is his response:
it is a 7..."
If that "7" is both raised and underlined, then according to Mr. Loring's information, it dates this pipe to 1927.

 

[georged]

Full height character, not underlined.
This is gettin' weird. :lol:

 

[dmcmtk]

Full height character, not underlined.

If that's what the seller is saying, and I'm looking at the pictures of this pipe in this thread, I'm saying the seller is wrong. From the pictures I can believe it's a 7, and the short horizontal underline is the clearest part of the mark in the pictures! Even the 7 and what I'm seeing as the underline combined is smaller than the 0 in /20. Who am I supposed to believe, the seller or my lying eyes?!? I agree with Hunter, 1927, esp with reg. marks on the stem, and those Patent numbers. No real other possibilities. George, are you thinking of buying this pipe...?

 

[georged]

I just received word back from the pipe's owner. Double-super-duper-checked with 10X magnification. Full height 7 with no underline.

 

[dmcmtk]

I just received word back from the pipe's owner. Double-super-duper-checked with 10X magnification. Full height 7 with no underline.

"From the pictures I can believe it's a 7, and the short horizontal underline is the clearest part of the mark in the pictures! Even the 7 and what I'm seeing as the underline combined is smaller than the 0 in /20. Who am I supposed to believe, the seller or my lying eyes?!?"


I'll only say it ONE MORE TIME, given the markings we can see in the pictures, and the report of a 7, 1927 IS THE ONLY POSSIBILITY.
This thread is, at this point, is just starting to give me a headache every time I read through it.

 

[georged]

10-4 on all that, dmtmtk
Thanks one and all for the considerable detective-y stuff and reference searching. :D
The owner thought (at first) that he might have a pre-date-stamp pipe from the teens. Turns out he doesn't, but oh well. Now he has an excuse to buy more pipes, right? :mrgreen:
As for whether I'm considering buying it (or ever was), the answer is no. I was just helping out a friend.

 

[sablebrush52]

Looks like an "&" to me. Just to muddy the waters, which I occasionally like to do.

 

[tridens]

I myself have always been confused by the claim on the Inner Tube packets that "A number denoting the size of tube required is stamped on every pipe." I am no expert, but it appears to me that few pipes from this time period, Bruyere or Shell, have such a number. I'd be very interested the hear the opinions of more experienced collectors about these supposed Inner Tube number stampings.

 

[tridens]

Hmmm. Actually, whereas the packet I pictured above makes that claim, the packet images in the 1928 and 1938 About Smoke catalogues do not. They merely ask the smoker to quote the number when ordering the pipe.
So, was there a period in which every pipe was stamped with these Inner Tube numbers? If so, when?
The reason I ask is because I have seen a (small) number of pipes stamped with "21" and "24" whose similarities escape me, even when they also possess shape numbers that are easily recognized.

 

[kenbarnes]

After having read information concerning tubes, I am now wondering whether I was correct with dating a packet containing one unused tube I sold on ebay last week. I am now realising how complicated this dating can be for my aging brain. I think the photos I took are too big to upload here but this is the link

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262853275084?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649

Have I misled the public?

 

[beefeater33]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

This is great information- Seems to solve the mystery somewhat..........

I have been scrounging forever, trying to find a picture of the BACK side of the tube envelope, and Ken just provided it!

Many Thanks!
Interesting that the #24 tubes fit billiards, bulldogs, apples, and other shapes..........
Good stuff for sure-
Ken's photo-