McClelland

[tzinc]

There is no reason for some people to get nasty. I don't know why some threads (see also when I asked about expensive pipes) have to turn nasty. Seems people get so defensive and combative at the drop of a hat.

I get it. They used leaves that are extinct for some of their blends, or was it all of their blends. And they used special processes that apparently no one else can copy. So no one can ever make a pipe blend even remotely close to theirs - got it.

I was just asking because I have seen blends that have gone extinct being picked up by other companies and re-made (and again some are good copies some are not so good). So I just wondered why it couldn't be done with this highly praised blend that I missed out on.

Peace.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

There is no reason for some people to get nasty. I don't know why some threads (see also when I asked about expensive pipes) have to turn nasty. Seems people get so defensive and combative at the drop of a hat.

I get it. They used leaves that are extinct for some of their blends, or was it all of their blends. And they used special processes that apparently no one else can copy. So no one can ever make a pipe blend even remotely close to theirs - got it.

I was just asking because I have seen blends that have gone extinct being picked up by other companies and re-made (and again some are good copies some are not so good). So I just wondered why it couldn't be done with this highly praised blend that I missed out on.

Peace.

What posts got nasty? Perhaps you're a bit overly sensitive. Name the re-made blends that were good copies please?

Again, if you feel so compelled to smoke some mcclelland, seems like someone posts some for sale here just about every week. Pipestud lists some for sale almost every Saturday in his site.

 

[btp79]

Rumor has it all you have to do is get some virginias and throw some vinegar at them. Seems legit...

Almost. It has to be apple cider vinegar

 

[sablebrush52]

There is no reason for some people to get nasty. I don't know why some threads (see also when I asked about expensive pipes) have to turn nasty. Seems people get so defensive and combative at the drop of a hat.

I get it. They used leaves that are extinct for some of their blends, or was it all of their blends. And they used special processes that apparently no one else can copy. So no one can ever make a pipe blend even remotely close to theirs - got it.

I was just asking because I have seen blends that have gone extinct being picked up by other companies and re-made (and again some are good copies some are not so good). So I just wondered why it couldn't be done with this highly praised blend that I missed out on.

Peace.

You answered your own question in the second paragraph. It's not that the leaf went extinct as that harvesting methods McClelland and other top blenders used went extinct. Rather than hand picking individual leaves off the plants when they hit peak maturity and leaving others to ripen, and picking from only certain sections of the plant, machine harvesting has become more the norm, which means that ripe leaf gets mixed with unripe leaf. And that's just the beginning of it.

Sure, other blenders take the IP's they've bought and put out new versions of famous names, but the contents aren't what made that blend famous, so in a way, it's a cheat. Once in a while the new version is actually as good, or maybe even a little better, like the Petersen version of Escudo or...or...

Well let's leave it at that.

McClelland had a very distinctive house style with their Virginias. Not everyone liked it, but it was unmistakable and that style was the product of a cluster of things that no longer exist. So, there's really no point to this. You want to smoke a McClelland blend? Buy a tin of McClelland. Otherwise you're only buying a label, and that you can do for less money.

 

[anotherbob]

Mcclelland was more than a recipe of ingredients, it was their entire process that made them unique and special. Which explains why no one else has been able to come close to copying it. Further, they had very high standards for the leaf they used which became difficult to impossible to acquire. This may have been the primary reason they shut down the operation. They apparently didn't want the McClelland reputation to be muddled by selling out and having lower quality product being sold under their name. They apparently were happy with the money they had.

makes a difference that it is their family name and not just a bussiness name!

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

Hey, you asked a question? And, those folks answered. That’s a forum.

I used to have quite a bit of McClellands. It was a beloved blend for me, until I found other blends I liked better. ?️

 

[anotherbob]

You answered your own question in the second paragraph. It's not that the leaf went extinct as that harvesting methods McClelland and other top blenders used went extinct. Rather than hand picking individual leaves off the plants when they hit peak maturity and leaving others to ripen, and picking from only certain sections of the plant, machine harvesting has become more the norm, which means that ripe leaf gets mixed with unripe leaf. And that's just the beginning of it.

Sure, other blenders take the IP's they've bought and put out new versions of famous names, but the contents aren't what made that blend famous, so in a way, it's a cheat. Once in a while the new version is actually as good, or maybe even a little better, like the Petersen version of Escudo or...or...

Well let's leave it at that.

McClelland had a very distinctive house style with their Virginias. Not everyone liked it, but it was unmistakable and that style was the product of a cluster of things that no longer exist. So, there's really no point to this. You want to smoke a McClelland blend? Buy a tin of McClelland. Otherwise you're only buying a label, and that you can do for less money.

the only way hand picking leaf is coming back is if we start to pay cigarish prices! and can you even imagine how heated people will get about that!

 

[woodsroad]

Okay so the leaves they used were high quality and they used unique processes I get that.

At the same time I'd rather have some sort of Bengal Slices or Three Nuns or Nightcap or Early Morning Pipe than none at all.

I mean you can still get John Lennon songs even if sung by another singer. Maybe it is not so good but you can still experience some version of it. But I get it people have different views. Maybe one's view is affected by whether they got to smoke McClellands or not.

Trust me.
As someone who has been down this road, once you sell a brand, it is as good as dead. You can not expect successive owners to care about anything beyond money.

 

[Inspired Idler]

There is no reason for some people to get nasty. I don't know why some threads (see also when I asked about expensive pipes) have to turn nasty. Seems people get so defensive and combative at the drop of a hat.

I get it. They used leaves that are extinct for some of their blends, or was it all of their blends. And they used special processes that apparently no one else can copy. So no one can ever make a pipe blend even remotely close to theirs - got it.

I was just asking because I have seen blends that have gone extinct being picked up by other companies and re-made (and again some are good copies some are not so good). So I just wondered why it couldn't be done with this highly praised blend that I missed out on.

Peace.

As the guy playing devil's advocate in this thread, I have to say, my intention is not to inflame anyone else. I respect everyone's opinion on this matter. My personal belief is that if you have a talent or gift, it is much better to share it with the world than keeping it to yourself.
Hell, I also don't have any clue about the actual reasons this information won't/can't be shared with other blenders, and frankly it's not my business. It's just my wishful thinking that it would be so future generations could have a shot at something better than I experienced myself.

 

[Chasing Embers]

My personal belief is that if you have a talent or gift, it is much better to share it with the world

And they did.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I also don't have any clue about the actual reasons this information won't/can't be shared with other blenders

It's been mentioned a few times in this thread. The McNeils didn't want their family name or recipes ruined by inferior stock or shortcuts. That came from them, not speculation.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

As the guy playing devil's advocate in this thread, I have to say, my intention is not to inflame anyone else. I respect everyone's opinion on this matter. My personal belief is that if you have a talent or gift, it is much better to share it with the world than keeping it to yourself.
Hell, I also don't have any clue about the actual reasons this information won't/can't be shared with other blenders, and frankly it's not my business. It's just my wishful thinking that it would be so future generations could have a shot at something better than I experienced myself.

That's a nice belief until you're the person responsible for all the sharing. Many,if not most of those talented and gifted people spend their life busting their ass while being ridiculed and ignored by most of those you believe deserve being shared with. And this is true with mcclelland, many ridiculed the vinegar and ketsup. The reality is, after sharing your gift or talent for most of your life and reach a certain age, you're tired and just want to rest and relax. You don't owe anybody shit.

 

[Inspired Idler]

That's a nice belief until you're the person responsible for all the sharing. Many,if not most of those talented and gifted people spend their life busting their ass while being ridiculed and ignored by most of those you believe deserve being shared with. And this is true with mcclelland, many ridiculed the vinegar and ketsup. The reality is, after sharing your gift or talent for most of your life and reach a certain age, you're tired and just want to rest and relax. You don't owe anybody shit.

Understood. I'll stop now.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Understood. I'll stop now.

No need, you're welcome to your opinion. Just understand McClelland and the people behind the company gave 100' s of times more to the industry than what they ever took. To imply they owe anything to anyone is bullshit.

 

[woodsroad]

My personal belief is that if you have a talent or gift, it is much better to share it with the world than keeping it to yourself.

As someone who has a “talent” and has made a decent living off of the IP produced with that talent, I’m dumbfounded by such a narrow, selfish, uninformed and dangerous opinion. My work, the work of the McNeils, and the work of any other creative person on this planet, is the manifestation of their labor. They are entitled to do with it as they damned well see fit.

 

[Worknman]

All I know is I have another tin of Tudor Castle and #24 heading my way from Pipestud and I'm stoked.

 

[gamzultovah]

Your question is valid as is everyone’s answer. From my understanding, what the McNeils accomplished was truly a labor of love; one that also created an income for them as a pleasant byproduct. They were not (are not) like Harland Sanders whose recipe for 11 herbs and spices and peculiar way he cooked chicken, was taken to market purposefully to make massive income. But to that end even Harland Sanders, in spite of the tremendous wealth he generated, regretted what KFC had done to his recipes; so much so that he publicly denounced the company and got sued for over a million dollars for doing so. Everyone has to live life on their own terms and the McNeils have done just that.

“Better one handful with tranquillity than two handfuls with toil and chasing after the wind.” ~ Ecc. 4:6

 

[tzinc]

What posts got nasty? Perhaps you're a bit overly sensitive. Name the re-made blends that were good copies please?

Not everyone agrees but a lot say Early Morning Pipe and the other Dunhills. People like Bengal Slices, 3 Nuns, Dark House, Presbyterian and other blends that were passed onto other companies.

Again, if you feel so compelled to smoke some mcclelland, seems like someone posts some for sale here just about every week. Pipestud lists some for sale almost every Saturday in his site.

No I don't feel compelled to smoke McClelland I was just curious as ti why these blends were not sold or passed along.

 

[pantsBoots]

Where is the special red virginia leaf going to come from?

Heh heh heh. I'm growing my first row of Lemon Virginny next year (they were sold out of other Virginnies that color cure darker). Friend of mine in Macon County, TN is planting a little test Virginia alongside his TN 86 Burley as well.

Just because crop yield has dropped due to loss of subsidies doesn't mean no one is growing it or will grow it in the future. While North Carolina and Virginia farmers have reduced the amount of quality Virginia they're growing, my understanding is southern Kentucky and northern Tennessee have kept pretty much right on with their One Sucker Burley (for dip/chew) and TN 86 for Dark Fire. There has been some reduction because of the subsidies, but there have also been some dips just due to crop rotation and tobacco being such a labor-intensive, resource-gobbling crop. The burley yields were bumper this year and the dark fire houses were more active than they have been for 5 years.

All that to say, it would be nice to have access to a library of various fermentation and other processing methods for experimentation. Would I expect Mac Baren to share that? No - proprietary information. But with McClelland out of business, what sense does it make to take a whole load of scientific work to the grave?

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Not everyone agrees but a lot say Early Morning Pipe and the other Dunhills. People like Bengal Slices, 3 Nuns, Dark House, Presbyterian and other blends that were passed onto other companies.

No I don't feel compelled to smoke McClelland I was just curious as ti why these blends were not sold or passed along.

You're right, not everyone agrees. Very few in fact. The latest Dunhill to Peterson was no change at all, Peterson was making the blends for Dunhill before Dunhill got out of the business. As for those other blends, what you have today is hardly the same as the originals.