Lung cancer - "Oh, you smoked. You did this to yourself, you deserve it, ..."

[monty55]

^^^ what mso said +1
Any one of us could have died at child birth. Or anytime during our adolescent years. I can think of at least 20 times I should have probably died during my lifetime, but I didn't, and lived 56 yrs so far. But all that could end tomorrow.. or in 5 minutes.
These people who blame death on a persons lifestyle no nothing of which they speak, and are simply in denial as to their own self indulged immortality coming to an end.

 

[elbert]

I'm not in the business of dealing death in judgment (and I am, therefor, agains the death penalty). It would be arrogant to say that anyone deserved death for smoking, and it would be equally arrogant to pretend that there was no causal relationship between smoking and cancer.
I also don't blame the suicidal for the path they've taken to end their suffering, and I don't blame pedophiles for their innate sexual attraction to children. (Note that I used the word "pedophile", an orientation, and not "child molester", a behavior.)
A deeper level of understanding of our fellow humans and our flaws would do us all a world of good.

 

[menuhin]

I posted this because my mom told me that a medical doctor that she knew passed away due to lung cancer, and she implied that it is so stupid and disgusting that people smoke and as if she knew this medical doctor must be a smoker, so that he died early due to what he did that cause his early death. Ended up this medical doctor was not a smoker.

This represents actually the reasoning of almost the majority of the non-smoker, as educated, or you can say 'brain-washed' by the anti-smoking policies.
@ tuold

As for cigarette smokers "deserving" cancer, that makes about as much sense as gays deserving AIDS.

This one sentence summarizes everything the very pro-LGBT-rights Berlin population would understand.
@mso489

What a person who "blames" a smoker (or drinker, or suicide, or whatever) for their death is really saying is, I won't do that, so I won't die. Or I'll die in some painless, pleasing way...

I totally understand that feeling, as I recall the funeral of my father who didn't make it through his 60 ...

 

[elbert]

You raise a good point there. My first thought after 'lung cancer' would probably be 'cigarettes'. Something for me to be mindful of going forward.

 

[warren]

Golly, there are a lot of people talking through their hats here.
I am pretty sure I wouldn't throw my sainted mother under the bus for her thoughts, valid or not. Most especially not the day after "Mother's Day."
I would like to see a citation where one person said to another that they deserved cancer. Not a citation where someone says that a person deserved cancer. One wherein the person speaks face to face with the cancer sufferer.

 

[johnnyreb]

Golly, there are a lot of people talking through their hats here.

+1 Warren! The whole premise here that someone would "curse smokers to have short lives that they deserve" is just preposterous! What is the point of such a thread?

 

[brudnod]

As a physician I have three views on this:

1) If you do "risky" activity you are more likely to reap the rewards/denigration.

2) If you have abstained from risky activity, you are not immune from the problems that what nothing to do with your personal practices.

3) If you get cancer you do not DESERVE what has befallen you! Does not matter what your life choices are!

My brother died from COPD January 1914 from smoking cigarettes. Choices. Did he deserve it? Who lives in a glass house to judge him?

 

[menuhin]

@ warren :laughat: a good one

... Most especially not the day after "Mother's Day."...

You are right about talking direct face to face, but it usually goes this way: "Oh that's sad he got cancer, and what kind of cancer?" she asked. "Lung cancer..." he replied. "Oh, no wonder..., he's a smoker, I advised him to stop some time ago. Now he finally got it."
@ johnnyreb
I think most members replied know what they are talking about.

The title sentence is actually from the 3rd paragraph told by an interviewee, an article about non-smokers lung cancer risk - this is how people think about smokers, she thought. And that she (a non-smoker) didn't want to be mistook as part of the smokers, so that she could get more ... empathetic responses (?) I guess.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-are-these-women-facing-advanced-lung-cancer-111214

 

[tarak]

So, I don't believe anyone deserves cancer, and even to say it's "earned" is a tough statement.
However, as an RN working in primary care it's somewhat foolish to deny the link between smoking (mostly cigarettes) and deleterious health effects. It's wider reaching than cancer. COPD is not found in a lot of non smokers.
Any behavior with risks will lead to an increased chance of issues. You cannot understand the daily implication we see of smoking, poor eating, and lack of exercise.
But America is an entitled society that balks at the truth. I just had to call the police to my clinic because a patient was asking for an unwise and illegal plan of care and would not leave. He statement was I worked for him and what he does is none of my business.
Is there too much incrimination by congress/insurance? Probably. But are there glaring connections between cigarette smoking and health issues? Yeah. I'm sorry if that statement had been delivered in a jugmental fashion, but the truth of the statement stands.

 

[warren]

tarak: I do not believe anyone is objecting to the "actions have consequences" philosophy. But, the heading of the post describes a one on one, face to face, confrontation. While believing there are some people with a total lack of social graces, I deplore such behaviors. I will admit, with my low opinion of the human race in general, that such beliefs are certainly rampant. The vocalization of such is still, thankfully, rare. That will change.
I've pointed out many times over the short years of my membership here that we smokers reek of stale smoke (no matter how much the blend costs), that the poisons from incinerated tobacco is the same for pipe, cigar and cigarette smokers (pipes smokers just do not, as a rule, suck the materials deep into the lungs), and our homes and automobiles suffer value on the market due to smoke. People in general do not like to see us, let alone be around such behavior.
Some of the members here are very industrious in writing their complaints about not being allowed to smoke in certain places. They feel put out, targeted because of their socially unacceptable practice of smoking. So, some of these people go about trying to soften society's scorn by making pipe smokers pitiable. We made a choice and should "man up" and accept the consequences of our actions, quit whinging and whining.
It is all rather obvious, if you are feeling shunned, targeted and less fulfilled because society today looks down on you . . . quit smoking. We smokers should simply accept our chosen lot as society's outcasts of the season and continue on, as best as possible, without denigrating others or resenting their "holier than thou" attitude.
I'll save some of you the time needed to type up and post your hurt and dismay. In the near future no reasonable venue will be found which will allow any type of smoking, anywhere on their premises. Certain venerated pipe shows, if they continue, will be "smoke free."
Smokers are the drunk drivers of 2000's. When tobacco smokers cease to be a reasonable source of tax revenues society will step on us much as you would step on a bug. Do not bring marijuana into the argument. That is still seen as a possible source of revenue and while it gets sorted out will be tolerated, even encouraged.

 

[atskywalker]

We don’t say that when someone has a motorbike accident for some reason although motorbiking is very risky. My personal judgement is that motorbikes are unacceptable risk for ME.. To say that my friends who ride bikes deserve a wheelchair for their risk taking is just banal in a sort of evil way! To legislate them out of their bike riding activities is something else entirely!
Sorry for bringing in the legislation tangent but its been on mind for a few days now and its closely related to the attitude the antismoking crowed encourages that leads to people becoming insensitive towards the suffering of others who are labeled “smokers”.
In Ontario there’s possibly a new law thats going to ban flavoured tobacco. I watched the other day some PhD lady talking about it on TV and it made my blood pressure rise.
People should be responsible for their choices and yes… certain activities increase certain risks but what is life worth without risk taking? For someone to tell me what risks I should and should not take let alone legislate it and force me to abide is just outrageously dangerous from a social policy standpoint (I can agree that its a public health issue that needs dialogue and eduction so that people can make informed decisions). What pisses me even more is that alcohol seems to be immune from that type of crusading although its damage is not limited to those who consume it let alone its well understood health risks! At least when I smoke I don’t run the risk of behaving like an idiot and possibly harm others (badly in lots of cases)!
As for deserving disease for engaging in risky activity, maybe there’s a shred of truth in that from the perspective of “You took certain risks and you injured yourself” but not separating this “rational fact” from the natural compassion we feel for those in pain is just wicked; but that’s what happens when the only mode of dealing with reality we know is rationality…. Ask Max Weber .

 

[johnnyreb]

@ johnnyreb
I think most members replied know what they are talking about.

The title sentence is actually from the 3rd paragraph told by an interviewee, an article about non-smokers lung cancer risk - this is how people think about smokers, she thought. And that she (a non-smoker) didn't want to be mistook as part of the smokers, so that she could get more ... empathetic responses (?) I guess.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-are-these-women-facing-advanced-lung-cancer-111214

It's a troll thread. Unlike the COPD thread which was asking advise about a personal diagnosis, what did you expect to accomplish with this thread? Enlighten public opinion? It's obvious you have not seen the effects of COPD or lung cancer first hand. Strike that...no need to answer. I don't want to get your thread closed, so I'm out.
Let me just say "Thanks" to the friends I've made here...you know who you are. I've enjoyed out conversations but I'll be dialing back my forum participation now. Good luck to all!

 

[warren]

Johnnyreb, you're taking this way too personal. Bigots are bigots even on this forum, consider the source. I like your style and hope you do not "dial it back" too much.

 

[igloo]

It is all the luck of the draw . About two years ago I began to make phlegm . I would set up all night in my chair and cough . I could make almost a quart of phlegm a day . Over the course of a year I went to doctor after doctor .I had every imaginable test done known to modern science .The lesions in my throat were bleeding and I was tested twice for throat cancer .They found a lump in my lung that turned out to be nothing .Finally they found a small tumor on my liver my copay for two bottles of pills made by Pfizer was 6000.00 .I went through targeted radiation therapy .I was proclaimed healed and there I was making a quart of phlegm a day . COPD they said . COPD is a word they now like to use for anyone with a breathing disorder of any kind . I was finally let go from my job of ten years when it was looking like I would not be around much longer . I sold my home and we rented one closer to my wives work . By the way I missed very little work during all of this and my sales number where still ok .So they took accounts away one week and fired me the next Tuesday .I would have done the same thing ,here is a man who has lost his voice ,shakes like a leaf lost a hundred pounds and looks like he hasn't slept in year .Not your ideal outside salesman . After we moved to the rental house my office was upstairs .I would make coffee in the morning in a cup with a lid .It would take all my strength to make it up those stairs and about 30 minutes . Still I was making phlegm , I started smoking cigarettes again what the hell I thought , I was afraid to go to sleep in fear I would not wake up . They wanted to do another throat biopsy , I looked the ENT in the eye and proclaimed if we don't do something about my lungs we don't have to wont worry about throat cancer you stupid SOB . With what little money I had left I decided to try one more doctor . He proclaimed I had pneumonia and he wanted to put me in the hospital .I told him give me the medicine and send me home one more trip to the hospital and I will be in the street .After three months of antibiotics and prednisone I began to feel better . My lung function tests showed good despite coughing up phlegm in huge amounts but at least it was clear after begging and pleading I was given a test for Alpha One and it came back positive .Low and behold simply amazing my lungs where in hyper drive because I no longer made a enzyme that protects them or my liver . I started my new medicine and three months later my voice returned .Two years later I still get the shakes every morning or if I am not feeling well and overall I am not the bullet proof bull I once was .But I eat what I want ,smoke in moderation and have the occasional Jim Beam on ice .I work about four days a week sometimes five . The moral to the story is the next time someone tells you COPD make sure they know what they are talking about .Sorry for venting here is a link for free testing if you meet criteria . https://www.alpha1.org/Newly-Diagnosed/Learning-about-Alpha-1/Testing-for-Alpha-1

 

[gloucesterman]

Warren, you're exactly right. We chose our lot and we need to man up". Nobody deserves a bad deal but we chose to take risks and that's our right. If others see that in a cause and effect perspective that's their perspective. I might find that a bit insensitive but I don't really care. In many respects I think MSO right, they struggle with reality. They have to believe they somehow have control, when in reality they don't. I think Red Fox said it right, "What are all these healthy people going to do when they are in the hospital dying of nothing." Taking the risk is to accept the possible consequences. A plain vanilla life style never really appealed to me. I'M GOING TO HAVE THEM BURY ME WITH MY FAVORITE PIPE JUST IN CASE GOD LIKES ABINGDON TOO.

 

[chalbach72]

If one takes precautions and smokes moderately, the risk for cancer is so much lower. I'm not just saying that, I researched this for 2 months and wrote a research presentation on it.
That being said, we do always run some increased risk. It's our choice to smoke or not, and we have to live with our decisions. I just hope I never have to go through that horrible situation, as I hope none of you do.

 

[gloucesterman]

Every choice has a consequence. Will I play it safe or go for the gusto? Make yours because they suit you not because they please someone else. "Brave New Worlds" and "1984" give good reason to march to your own drum. My only rule "I will do no harm to others". That is of course unless they mean harm to me. Death is our birth right, it's inescapable. It's what you experience between birth and that inevitable outcome that matters. A pipe full of good tobacco and a tumbler of Honey Jack have enriched my life. Seen as bad choices by others, doesn't change what they have given me. To yourself be true, it's you, you live with.

 

[lostandfound]

Opinions, speculation, conjecture, and stuff!
Pay me no mind. I'm just offended that no one commented on my Highlander reference. ::

 

[menuhin]

There can be only one!

How this topic relates to Highlander?
By the way, please don't take the discussion too personal, it's a discussion about risk and choice of lifestyle, and how it may or may not relate to moral connotations. :puffpipe:

 

[warren]

I drove a Highlander for years and I'm still not sure about the reference.
I thought the discussion was about cretins and compassion. There is no way not to take it serious and personal based on the title and how the opening post targets non-smokers. Way too inflammatory, whiny, nonsensical and bigoted for my taste. I'm done.