Lung cancer - "Oh, you smoked. You did this to yourself, you deserve it, ..."

[menuhin]

There are patients who have lung cancers, for those who smoked, even just one cigarette and in the past, some people would possibly say "Oh, you smoked. You did this to yourself, you deserve it."; and for non-smoking lung cancer patients, they really want to clarify that they never smoked or quit smoking, so as to qualify to say that they "don't deserve it".
Then how about pancreatic cancer, or skin cancer? Do these patients deserve or not deserve it? And how about death - who doesn't deserve the destined death? In one form or another? Or perhaps eternal life is really happening for some.
Would love to hear from some of you, your opinion on how people (primarily non-smokers?) would love to curse smokers to have short lives that 'they deserve'.

 

[settersbrace]

This thread is doomed.
No offense Menuhin, I just don't see this ending well.
If someone ever actually said that I or anyone I knew "deserved" to contract some terminal illness I doubt they'd ever want to say it again when I got done with them.

 

[pruss]

First, I don't think anyone "deserves" cancer.
I'd also go so far as to say that anyone who asserts that another human being, "deserves cancer," is a tosspot of the highest order, and needs to get their self righteous, judgmental, head out of their rectum to take a breath of fresh air.
That being said, as a former cigarette smoker (10 years at a pack a day), and an occasional pipe smoker (once or twice a week), I understand that I've increased my risk of contracting certain cancers as well as heart and lung disease. Do I deserve to get cancer, or emphysema, or have a heart attack because I smoke/d? I don't think so. Is there a greater likelihood that I may have illness related to smoking? Yes.
I think that anyone who believes they have the right to castigate others to the point of wishing disease, pain and death on them by saying that they deserve it needs to investigate their glass house for stones.
-- Pat

 

[leacha]

Genetics, Genetics, Genetics.
Genetics plays the biggest role on whether you develop a disease or an illness.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I know what Menuhin is talking about. I hear it in subtle uses of language. And, some people just say it. There are many people who believe that everything that can happen to people happens for a reason. Nothing is accidental or random. They truly believe this. All homeless and poor people are lazy. Every fat person is a glutton. People with lung cancer smoked. They truly believe that the world is 1+1=2. It is an over simplification, an illusion of control. "If I just keep control, nothing bad will happen." "Bad things happen when you lose control."

 

[lostandfound]

There can be only one!

 

[settersbrace]

Genetics, Genetics, Genetics.
Genetics plays the biggest role on whether you develop a disease or an illness.
Andrew
This ^^^^^^^^^^

I've known cigarette smokers, 50+ years and worked in steel mills that lived into their 90's. One man who I was very close to played horned instruments until he was 90. You either have good genetics or you don't. The risks you take are yours, it's called Liberty and no one has the right to dictate what risks are acceptable providing its legal. As for the risk takers who choose to walk on the illicit side, it's still their choice and who am I to judge them?

 

[woodsroad]

I deserve a day off. Maybe two.

 

[blueeyedogre]

The whole "Smoking Related" bullshit bugs me. If you have lung or heart issues at 65 and admit to having a cigarette when you were 15 out behind your dad's woodshed then it gets listed as a "Smoking Related" sickness. Some are just genetically prone to certain types of illness, my Mom's family has cancer issues and my Dad's family have thick blood. Mom has 9 sisters and 5 of them have had some kind of cancer issue, Dad and all the males in his family have never made 65 due to stroke, heart attack, or aneurisms. Some times smoking has nothing to do with it and it just happens. Dad was a pack a day smoker for 50yrs..... started at 13 and died at 63 of a heart attack while his brother never smoked, very athletic, diet conscious died of an aneurism at the age of 38.

Does smoking contribute to illnesses? Absolutely, no question. So does eggs, bacon, bungee jumping, military service, and poor voting choices (see stress) but I have never heard of a pork farmer dying of a heart attack and someone saying "Oh, obviously another Bacon Related death there".

 

[kane]

"Deserve" is a moral judgment. It has little to do with causality as related to lifestyle choices or behavior that may statistically increase one's risk.

 

[blueeyedogre]

Oh, and as for the "Deserved" part...... My Mom has had Cancer 3 times.... Hodgkin Lymphoma twice (first time at age 13) and cancer of the thyroid once and if I ever heard someone say she deserved it then I will certainly inform them when they come to on the floor and ask why I punched them in the face I will be sure to reply "Oh that.... Well you deserved that mate"

 

[menuhin]

@ settersbrace
Please don't misunderstand me, I just want to share my frustration and indignant feelings towards the hostility against people who smoke.
@ kane
Exactly, 'deserve' entails some moral judgment and an implication of causality.
I want to hear more but I am agreeing to all of you here. And I deserve a month-off. @ woodsroad :wink:

 

[james80]

I really think this thread shows a complete lack of judgement in the first instance. It could be construed as insensitive.

 

[nachman]

The insurance companies are pushing this. If they can convince people that cancer is due to a persons behaviour and is deserved, they can refuse to cover it, after all, "You did it to yourself." It is like the earthquake policies in Oklahoma which the insurance companies are refusing to pay off on after writing them and collecting premiums for them. They say the quakes are the result of man-made activity ie salt water disposal wells by the oil companies. Of course, the oil companies say the quakes are natural and not their fault.

 

[seacaptain]

Smoking is the latest bogey man for the politically affronted. Does it increase your risk of certain diseases? Sure it does, but that's not the point. So do many, many other activities.
It's all about politics. There's a certain politically protected lifestyle that increases your risk for all sorts of terrible and expensive diseases, but you'll never - and I mean never - hear a word about the increased health risks because they are politically favored.
Smokers just have the bad luck of being on the wrong side of the people who hold political power.

 

[woodsroad]

" There's a certain politically protected lifestyle that increases your risk for all sorts of terrible and expensive diseases"

Please elaborate

 

[tennsmoker]

As a cancer (melanoma) survivor, I’d like to say that no one deserves this evil plague.
I’d also like to say that I have had a round or two with my doc about smoking my pipe and an occasional cigar. It got loaded onto my health record as “smoker.”
I smoke one pipe bowl, no more than two, per day. Occasional cigar means rarely.
I argued until it was lifted, grudgingly. My record now says "occasional smoker."
I also agree that life is a gamble.
I had a really close friend who was working to get himself into better shape. Had a heart attack while exercising and was dead by the time he hit the floor. He was 40.
You buys your ticket, you takes your chances!

 

[tuold]

Cancer has always had a stigma attached to it long before it was clearly associated with cigarette smoking just because it was a veritable death sentence. It wasn't all that long ago people were blaming witchcraft and evil spirits for all diseases, so it's not surprising that some of that those superstitions are still around in our collective subconscious.
I think it's trans-cultural thing as well. In Japan in the early 1980s it was common for doctors to withhold a cancer diagnosis from a patient and only let one family member in on the truth.
As for cigarette smokers "deserving" cancer, that makes about as much sense as gays deserving AIDS.
From there the issues go much deeper and also political. As populations mass into large cities our thinking becomes more collective based. A rich person takes wealth from the poor. A sick person is a drain on the collective. A smoker is a risk to the whole of society. There is no such thing as live and let live anymore. We can't afford that kind of thinking. At least that's what we are led to think.

 

[settersbrace]

It's all about politics. There's a certain politically protected lifestyle that increases your risk for all sorts of terrible and expensive diseases, but you'll never - and I mean never - hear a word about the increased health risks because they are politically favored.
This was what I was thinking when I issued my lame attempt at fortune telling at the beginning of this. I get what the OP is driving at but the subject itself is virtually a Pandora's Box.

 

[mso489]

menuhin, the smoking issue is just a small part of a much larger failure of people to come to terms with death, their own, their family's, and other peoples'. I am appalled when obituary writers describe someone's demise as their falling away from their life accomplishments. Huh? We are mortal. This is a condition of this astonishing trip of joy (if we're lucky) that is life. People get depression and kill themselves, and they get a vast array of diseases that make their life miserable and sometimes carry them away, but this doesn't mean they were bad people, and it is in most cases impossible to prove any death is related to any cause except by probabilities. When I lost my late wife, in the process of that, I was amazed at some of the reactions to illness. Some people actually said something like ick. Another "friend" went into a rage and disowned her. None of this was my late wife's doing, just peoples' inability to grow up and face their own mortality and to be better people for it. What a person who "blames" a smoker (or drinker, or suicide, or whatever) for their death is really saying is, I won't do that, so I won't die. Or I'll die in some painless, pleasing way at an uncommonly old age, in my sleep. Most people attain a somewhat brave balance with their own limited time. Others just act screwy.