Local B&M Nightmare
- Thread starter vegasblue
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and I agree. The only trouble they could get in, that would stick (so far as my 5 cent legal education goes), is if they violated an ordinance or law by their actions in pursuit of the pat search.
For example, if they groped you or exposed you, or injured you somehow.
I hope, for their sake, they are videotaping the entire process. Sounds like a good way to get sued.
It would never work in Texas. Everybody and their sister has a CHL! I could just see it.
Clerk: I have to pat you down to let you in.
Me: Does that mean I can't carry my concealed handgun in here?
Clerk: Yes
Me: Do you have an X-Ray machine?
Clerk: No.
Me: Here honey hold this (Takes 1911/holster out of pants and puts it in wife's purse). OK Search me.
Actually, now in Texas private businesses who refuse to allow lawful carry have to display a specific sign in plain view or there isn't squat they can do about you carrying.
Clerk: I have to pat you down to let you in.
Me: Does that mean I can't carry my concealed handgun in here?
Clerk: Yes
Me: Do you have an X-Ray machine?
Clerk: No.
Me: Here honey hold this (Takes 1911/holster out of pants and puts it in wife's purse). OK Search me.
Actually, now in Texas private businesses who refuse to allow lawful carry have to display a specific sign in plain view or there isn't squat they can do about you carrying.
@baronsamedi
I think that's a letter vs spirit of the law kinda thing. When I took my CHL course they said that even if the sign isn't the correct dimensions and verbiage to exactly comply with the 'thirty-ought-six' law, as long as it was posted clearly and made the intentions clear, that you'd still probably get in trouble if you got caught. But part of keeping it concealed is that nobody knows you have it
It's also illegal on gov property or in establishments that do 51% or more of their business in alcohol sales.
I think that's a letter vs spirit of the law kinda thing. When I took my CHL course they said that even if the sign isn't the correct dimensions and verbiage to exactly comply with the 'thirty-ought-six' law, as long as it was posted clearly and made the intentions clear, that you'd still probably get in trouble if you got caught. But part of keeping it concealed is that nobody knows you have it
It's also illegal on gov property or in establishments that do 51% or more of their business in alcohol sales.
We are probably getting quite legalistic, but if I was said owner and had similar motivations....
1. Sign saying consent to pat search.
2. If weapon other than firearm was found, I would reserve the right to refuse service if I so desired. I might allow, for example, a folding knife of a certain length, but not a sheath knife of the same length (even if both were legal, per State law and/or city ordinance). Things like brass knuckles, stun guns, and the like I would refuse service to.
3. If the customer declared a firearm, I would do as local law enforcement does, and ask for its location and a presentation of the CHL. Remember that "concealed" and "hidden" are two different things. If the customer did not have a CHL, I would refuse service. If I asked for declaration of a firearm, and the customer did not declare, and I found one, he would be booted regardless of CHL status.
4. I would post no signs stating no right of entry for firearms (30.06 of Penal Code in Texas), but I would make it clear in English and Spanish (a State requirement) that certain rules applied for right of entry into my establishment, and that I retained to right to refuse service at any time.
And I would quickly go out of business.
1. Sign saying consent to pat search.
2. If weapon other than firearm was found, I would reserve the right to refuse service if I so desired. I might allow, for example, a folding knife of a certain length, but not a sheath knife of the same length (even if both were legal, per State law and/or city ordinance). Things like brass knuckles, stun guns, and the like I would refuse service to.
3. If the customer declared a firearm, I would do as local law enforcement does, and ask for its location and a presentation of the CHL. Remember that "concealed" and "hidden" are two different things. If the customer did not have a CHL, I would refuse service. If I asked for declaration of a firearm, and the customer did not declare, and I found one, he would be booted regardless of CHL status.
4. I would post no signs stating no right of entry for firearms (30.06 of Penal Code in Texas), but I would make it clear in English and Spanish (a State requirement) that certain rules applied for right of entry into my establishment, and that I retained to right to refuse service at any time.
And I would quickly go out of business.
I have had my CHL for quite some time now, and I am a chronic carrier. Yet, for several years I erroneously believed, and stated to others, that you could not Concealed Carry in a bank. I was wrong, of course, but I am not quite sure where I picked that bad piece of info up.
So...I like to specify whenever possible, even if those "in the know" assume the correct. You know, I know, but maybe someone else reads it "wrong" (as I must have at some point).
Couldn't agree more On things like gun laws it's much better to be too specific than not specific enough.
On things like gun laws it's much better to be too specific than not specific enough.
I don't read anything here about "trained professionals" or "safety".
Our country was made great because men were willing to sacrifice their lives to protect their God-given rights, not because men were willing to sacrifice their rights for "security".
I don't think this falls under "unreasonable". You want to come into my house then you'll play by my rules or you'll stay out of my house. As long as people know up front before they're searched and are given the option to either be searched or leave the private establishment then that is reasonable.
Yup, you're right.
I guess I would rather choose to do my business elsewhere than to let a local business pat me down.
As would I, sir. Which I think is what most people's response will be. I'd rather pay a few $s more and not be molested/treated like I'm guilty before proven innocent.
Holy snappin' duckshit ... only in America, sigh!
WTF is this world coming to and where's it stemming from, we all ask ...threads like this answer the question perfectly.
WTF is this world coming to and where's it stemming from, we all ask ...threads like this answer the question perfectly.
sorry to post so many times but i just had this thought. what training do they have? hell at concert halls the staff has to go through training and such as to know what is proper and unproper touch. unless they work for the tsa then they have every right or atleast they think they do to molst you.
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