Lengthy Tale About The City Council Voting To Close Our Club

[instymp]

"Now sit in a bar and let a paint balling competition go on around you as your clothes get spattered with paint whilst you have a quiet drink.
Happy? No you wouldn't be."
If I didn't want paintball all over me, I wouldn't go back to that bar, don't like smoke..don't go back. Don't like they way someone runs their business, don't go back.

Where does it say anywhere people have to run their business, club or organization so everybody is a happy little F*&%#$.

There are a lot of organizations, clubs & business I won't walk in to, but respect their rights to do what they want. Don't understand what's so difficult with that!

 

[cmdrmcbragg]

The problem here is this establishment is a safe haven where folks can drink and smoke and the competition is upset that they are losing customers because they refuse to offer the same perk. That and they appear to have a lesser bar environment to offer.
@James appears to have a problem with smokers in public, especially pipe smokers as we should all -I guess- smoke contemplatively at home by ourselves, or with a small group of others. Get off your high horse. I agree some members here are reactionaries, but this guy has a legit problem here as a competitor is trying to have the laws changed essentially so the playing field will be leveled.

 

[ithelouniverse]

Mso489: couldn't agree more. The bar owner aspect was simply for this forum... I haven't even told the members of our club, just myself and the co founder. It was only used to illustrate that this wasn't done as an attempt to increase public health but to preserve this fellows profits. I would never bring that up to the city council either. The guy who owns the store where our club is located is speaking at the council meeting before the vote and our stance is simply that this is an overreach of gvt that will negatively impact his business and the business of others...
James80: you only make your point by misquoting the title: I didn't say "... Closes our club." I said "is voting to close our club." Which it will do when they ban smoking in the club we've been using for 14yrs, which we moved to when the LAST council ruling said we couldn't smoking in the previous area we had... We are not reactionaries. We really are in danger of losing our clubhouse...
We have been more than accommodating to the city councils wishes. We can clearly meet up at people houses but it will be nowhere as cool as the clubhouse we've currently got. Most of the stuff we go to the clubhouse to avoid is located at home: chores, homework , work work, etc. Not to mention it will put a stop to the cigar expos we put on once a month that drives business for the shop the graciously let's us use his space...
I'm typing from my phone, sorry for any grammatical errors... I make them frequently enough without this tiny phone and my ring size 13 fingers. Terrible pairing!

 

[crazypipe]

Did the same thing here in Delaware :evil:

 

[mso489]

People of every political persuasion get churlish when public bodies try to nose into

their recreational gatherings. I think you could drum up quite a lot of sympathy. Don't

let it become an outcry from one particular group. No one wants the city council nosing

in on their slot car club, their knitting circle, their ham radio club, etc. etc. I think lots of

people might get indignant. If the council is catching it from all sides, it might look like

a really good idea to back off and leave it alone.

 

[brudnod]

I would have thought that Texas of all states would have been more conservative (as in conserving what already exists) but that does not seem to be the case. The pipe club in Northern Virginia is at a home of as member and perhaps that is what you are destined for...

 

[yazamitaz]

Holy bat shit batman, you are in Texas. I thought this kind of communist shit only happened in good old New Jersey.

 

[brian64]

Anti-tobacco hysteria is just one of many examples of the hive-brain at work...which is a good term for it because group-think is very insect-like. It's all the result of the social-engineering of the queen bees, queen ants and black widows.
Warren Zevon said it well in his song Life'll Kill Ya:
"It's the kingdom of the spiders, it's the empire of the ants. You need a permit to walk around downtown, you need a license to dance."

 

[necron99]

Just go over and kick the shit out of him. When your done say, " many things are bad for your health".

 

[numbersix]

James80: you're right, they're not closing the club just banning smoking in the building we use. I apologize for two reasons:

1. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer

2. I'm sorry I didn't include a map leading you from point A to point B...

If you think we here on this forum complain too much , I'm sure there's plenty other places for you to take your highly evolved, unselfish, other point of view seeing internet persona...

:rofl:
This seems to belong here:

 

[phred]

If I didn't want paintball all over me, I wouldn't go back to that bar, don't like smoke..don't go back. Don't like they way someone runs their business, don't go back.

At the risk of derailing the conversation, this is exactly what I did for years here in Colorado - all of the live music venues in Denver seemed to serve alcohol and allow smoking, and I didn't like coming home after a concert smelling like an ashtray, having to air out my clothes (or immediately put them in the washing machine, once we owned one of our own), and then take a shower before going to bed. So I simply didn't go to a lot of live shows unless the experience seemed worth the hassle of cleaning up after other people's smoking habits. Ditto for restaurants - there was only one that we went to regularly that properly ventilated their smoking area, and the only time we ever smelled smoke there was when we were seated immediately next to that area, so no big deal...
But I did miss out on a lot of great music, and since Colorado's smoking ban took effect, I've spent a lot more money going to shows than I used to. Like it or not, my pipe smoking does impact the people around me - and I feel the need to be aware of that, and to be as courteous as possible as a result. Some like it, some don't - so I choose where I smoke carefully at outdoor concerts and so far, have not had any negative interactions with antismokers of the sort that I used to be... :D

 

[ruscho]

I agree with james80 - there is no desire to strike a balance on either side, which is unfortunate. He is right - no one is closing the club, they are just voting on a smoking ban at the workplace - democracy at its best! All you have to do is look at Jack Daniel's being produced in a dry county - where there is will, there is way. I am sure you can carve an exemption for cigar stores, as many other states/counties have done already.
The paintball example was a bit off, a better example would be marijuana. I'm not a prune, I partook in my younger days, but today I find the smell offensive. To me (and everyone else I guess) it smells exactly like skunk. I am not against legalizing it, but I don't want to smell skunk piss when I sit down to a nice steak at a restaurant or have a drink at the bar. So I do understand how non-smokers may feel and I am all for placing limits on where you can blow your smoke when in public.
And let's be realistic here. Not so long ago there were spittoons everywhere. How many pipe smokers would be OK with having a vessel full of spit in their workplace today?! Yet, chewing and dipping tobacco is still just as readily available as it was 50 years ago, you just can spit while waiting in line at the bank

 

[curl]

If I understand correctly, a competing bar owner is trying to put you out of business.

I think it's fair to argue that he's merely using the current sentiment that tobacco = witch in order to get a political advantage for his business. Maybe it's reasonable to publicly explore that guy's relationship with the city council or other high mucketity mucks in town. I think you need to broadcast to the public that a businessman is trying to cozy up to local politicians to put you out of business...most normal people don't like that sort of thing.
Trying to put someone out of business because you don't like it is similar to imposing strict licensing requirements to keep competitors at bay. Most of us don't like it at the national level, but local and state govt's are more frequent violators of the free market.
This kind of argument might be effective if the councilmen pride themselves on their conservative reputations.

 

[ithelouniverse]

As I said earlier, I have no problem with the ban targeting bars and venues. The point of a bar is to drink and get laid, not to breath in second hand smoke...
However, the sole purpose of going to a smoke shop or smoke club is to either purchase something to smoke or to sit and smoke. I would have no probablem with this proposed ban if there was already an exemption included for tobacco shops to help preserve business.
However, they fact that we brought this up and were shot down out of hand with no debate is the problem. Hopefully tonight cooler heads will prevail and we will have full use of our clubhouse!

 

[ithelouniverse]

Ruchco: I understand the pot argument. And to be honest, I don't want to smell smoke when eating or in class or most other places. But a workplace ban MUST take into account the fact that some business exist for smoking. IE private shops and smoking clubs. That's the balance ...

 

[hippiebrian]

This just floors me. In Texas of all places! Heck, even here in Southern California there is an exemption to the smoking ban for "cigar lounges". Seriously, I'm with you. Get the council to agree to allowing smoking in tobacco shops. Bars and resturants, okay, I can kind of see that, but exceptions should be made!
In the mean time, if you have to (hopefully temporarily) move your club meetings to a private residence. We need all the clubs we can get (maybe I should start one here in Long Beach, if I could only find another piper here, sigh).

 

[bwithers55]

It sounds very frustrating, for sure. We had to change venues recently because the tavern we were using limited their smoking section to the bar area, which has no tables. Fortunately, we found another venue. I liked the other place for the food and ambiance. But it became untenable when they restricted the smoking area to the bar.
I sometimes wonder about the guys who are on the water wagon. It might feel like an unwelcome atmosphere to meet in a bar.
-bw