Legends of today

[snagstangl]

Misterlowercase: can you point me to any documents or sources that discuss the "rotating copper cylinders, or toasting table" I've never heard of them.
I would have to agree with Ray that some of the burley blends that feature the actual taste of the burley may be some of the must trys/legends. Burley isn't only some cheap tobacco that soaks up whatever topping is applied to it. I can taste some of the different flavors in some C&D blends that I identify as predominantly burley flavors.
Interesting note on burley blends; back in the 40's and 50's it was thought that burley blends benefited most from aging or letting them sit. This is what I have gleaned from the articles in Pipe Lover's magazine I have read. The opposite seems to be common knowledge now.
I wish it was more of a functional habit for me but as Deathmetal says since I am limited where I can smoke a pipe it is more of a hobby for me. I do use it as a way to get nicotine sometimes, but snus does that for me most often.
I think discontinued and hard to get makes the legend, otherwise each smoker is stuck with their own legendary blend. What ever you have smoke 10's of ounces of, or always go back to is the most likely to be the next legendary blend.
Sorry I didn't read Neverbend's post before posting this.

 

[neverbend]

Snagstangl said...

Sorry I didn't read Neverbend's post before posting this.

I wouldn’t read them either if I didn’t have to spell check ‘em.

Burley isn't only some cheap tobacco that soaks up whatever topping is applied to it. I can taste some of the different flavors in some C&D blends that I identify as predominantly burley flavors.

I rarely smoke burley so I don’t comment much about them. Their reputation has grown considerably in the past 30 years and I find them to be superior to what I blended with in the past, specifically those from C&D.

I think discontinued and hard to get makes the legend, otherwise each smoker is stuck with their own legendary blend.
What ever you have smoke 10's of ounces of, or always go back to is the most likely to be the next legendary blend.

I like your definition.

 

[misterlowercase]

Misterlowercase: can you point me to any documents or sources that discuss the "rotating copper cylinders, or toasting table" I've never heard of them.

I dunno why those 2 examples stick in my head, but they do for some reason.
The bit about the Rattray's table was first read about in an interview with pipemaker Brad Pohlmann talking about visiting Perth some time in the early 70's - it was published in Pipes & Tobaccos Magazine.
There is an old booklet though, which was widely circulated and can easily be found in full online,

called A Disquisition for the Connoisseur where Mssr. Rattray speaks of "panning" ---

The bit about McConnell's, I'm pretty sure I picked it up by reading one of Mssr. Pease's wonderfully written articles, but they are also mentioned in an old brochure, especially noting the crusty attributes ---

But to be fair, I'd reckon some of the contemporary blenders also use those techniques, to a degree at least.
Stuff like cutter-top tins and the way they were processed, though, was something very special and the only close example I can conjure would be how back when Drucquer's would run their tins through an oven.
Interesting stuff is this excerpt from Liverpool 5 describing the method, and note that some of the darker flakes could see almost an hour in the "heater" ---

This might be a convenient moment to describe the heater tester used for all cigarettes and tobacco tins not put through the Thermokept or Tingey cold vacuumising machines.*
These testers were large cylinders 7' long x 3' diameter, fitted with 23 tubes each 3½" diameter which were surrounded with steam heater coils. The cylinder rotated slowly on its axis, making one revolution every 40 seconds. Steam was applied to the coils at 30-35 lbs in² which produced a temperature inside the tubes of about 280°F.
Tins were placed into the tubes as the cylinder rotated pushing preceding tins through the tubes until they fell out down a chute at the other end. At the exit end, the thin tagger plate which had become distended by the heat in the tester was "pricked" with a gramophone needle held in a stick of solder. The heated air inside the tin pushed out and the puncture was immediately soldered. The application of the hot iron burned up most of the air remaining in the tin, leaving a partial vacuum of around 4½ inches.
The time taken for a tin of cigarettes to pass through the heater was about 6½ minutes.
For tobaccos, however, the heating feature of the testers was in effect used to extend the processing of the tobacco.
The number of tins fed into each tube and the number of tubes used was varied according to a very carefully calculated formula for each and every brand and packing so that some passed through the heater in 9 minutes whereas others took 22½ minutes.
Some brands, especially the darker flakes or navy cuts were put through a second time after a 48 hour interval so that the total time in the heater was often as much as 50 minutes.
This treatment of tobaccos had been practised since the earliest days and was considered to be an essential part of the processing.It was only abandoned when tobacco packings changed to snap vac or skruseal packings some time after World War 2.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*note: the 2 machines mentioned above made slightly cheaper to produce tins and were less labor intensive, but resulted in a lower vacuum of 2-3", while the conventional heat processed cutter-top usually had 4-5", but all tins still had to be checked after the sealed fact for "leakers".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:idea:

I think discontinued and hard to get makes the legend, otherwise each smoker is stuck with their own legendary blend. What ever you have smoke 10's of ounces of, or always go back to is the most likely to be the next legendary blend.

That seems right on the spot to me.
Penzance in particular is an astounding phenomenon and its legend continues to grow it seems, for much different reasons as to why the legend of Sobranie grew so large, but Penz closely parallels that attainment of "most holy aura".
I think it's good to have legends, but in the end all that matters is ones personal hagiography of revered saints 'n such.
The best vintage tobacco I've ever had the pleasure of smoking was made by Thomson & Porteous, an old cutter-top of Scots Cake, and they're hardly a legend in pipelore, yet I hold them in the highest regard possible.
And, different circles have different legends as well, something a little obscure like Bendigo Plug can develop a certain cultlike status in short order after a few smokers were able to get their hands on some, and although quite well-known in its home country, it was virtually unheard of in the USA.
Local legend goes a long way too, and it's interesting how these things develop over time.

 

[deathmetal]

Neverbend, here's my original post:

In the past, the pipe smoker went down to his local pharmacy or tobacconist and had his pick of many brands, bought whatever favorite was available or near-miss was price appropriate, and then smoked it in a pipe he had purchased with a similarly casual approach. He used those until they burned out, clogged up or got lost, and then got another. It was a part of regular life. Now it is a focal point as a hobby, designed to distract us from normal life and make us feel pampered.

Regarding this:

Your initial post doesn't mention social acceptance, rather you state that smokers were casual in selecting pipes, tobaccos and then the care of those pipes and that's too broad a generalization.

You might have to infer that from the hobby/casual distinction. You instead chose to look at it as a drugstore/tobacconist question, which was a non sequitur unless you were trying to use it to create an alternate explanation for the difference between hobbyism and casual smoking.
This is similarly a non sequitur:

From marketing to stores like Alfred Dunhill in the 1920s through G. Lorenzi in the 1980s, pipes were sold as a personal accoutrement.

Yes, in advertising all things are sold this way. That makes it not very relevant here.
The point I was making is proven by the difference we see in cigarettes versus pipe tobaccos: cigarettes are a casual habit, still somewhat socially accepted, and there is a wide variety of cigarettes and while people may concern themselves with the choice initially (like your example of people buying pipes) they do so in the context of an everyday activity. We're also picky about our rutabagas, but not like a hobbyist.

 

[pylorns]

Pipetool.com top 5 stats on most cellared tobacco:

1. Full Virgina Flake

2. Escudo Navy Deluxe

3. HH Old Dark Fired

4. Penzance

5. Brigade Campaign Dark Flake

 

[neverbend]

MisterLowerCase said...

But to be fair, I'd reckon some of the contemporary blenders also use those techniques, to a degree at least.

The machinery today is probably more efficient and consistent, as it is with wine production and I agree that any process that a (larger) manufacturer requires, they'll have the ability to perform. The pipe and tobacco business has always been rife with secret processes, many nonsense, but perhaps some meaningful and others lost.
Love the description of cutter-top tinning, quite different from what I saw in the 1980s with vacuum sealed tins.
McConnell and other manufacturers packed the tins manually, and the process explains why they used circular tins for mixtures.
Mixtures were packed with a paper doily, smooth center and frilled edges, that was placed over the tin and pressed into place with a (heavy) metal disc whose diameter was almost as large as the tin. The doily was creased over the tin edge and was now fitted to the bottom and extending upwards. Tobacco was weighed in a scooped pan and poured into a funnel that fed the tin. The tobacco, overflowing the tin but inside the doily, was forcefully pressed into place with the metal disc. A circular paper insert was placed over the tobacco, the doily folded into the tin and the lid put into place. The loaded tins were then fed through a vacuum sealer and they were checked for seal. Any tin suspected of not being sealed was repacked.
Flakes had sized paper inserts with flaps. The packers would either weigh or they would know the number of flakes to select (if they knew the tobacco) and they were laid onto the insert and he flaps folded over. Insert card, tin top and vacuum.
There have been many advances in tinning tobacco but this process always struck me as very cottage industry that, in a sense, it was.
Troy, I read a great post of your regarding plug tobaccos a few minutes ago.

 

[deathmetal]

Pipetool.com top 5 stats on most cellared tobacco:

#3 and #5 were surprises for me.

 

[mikestanley]

Back in 2000, I played golf in Myrtle Beach with a guy who worked in a facility that made aluminium beer cans. He explained some of the huge bonus money to be made for seemingly small innovations that, over the course of years, would save the company money. Just one example was cutting the can top end in a jagged tooth pattern instead of straight. That tiny amount of material saved made the company a lot of money. That style where the top is smaller than the body? That allows them to use thinner stock aluminium...saving a TON of money.
It is my opinion that any changes in manufacturing is done simply to cut cost and increase profit. Pipe tobacco is no different. Move production from the British Isles to the European Continent because you can use casings instead of condiment leaf to flavor...saves money. Package in 50 gr. instead of 2 oz., that was probably the most obvious. Use two Oriental varieties instead of three...saves money. Shorten the time you age you leaf and blend before shipping it...saves money.
The older coin twist tins are much thicker and sturdier than most of today's version. The threading between lid and body have changed.
On a positive note. McClelland strives to age their black, brown and green label blends at two and in some cases three before they let them go. GLP and C&D improved the tins they use and sell blends in 2 oz. tins.
Mike S.

 

[neverbend]

MikeStanley said...

Back in 2000, I played golf in Myrtle Beach with a guy who worked in a facility that made aluminium beer cans. He explained some of the huge bonus money to be made for seemingly small innovations that, over the course of years, would save the company money. Just one example was cutting the can top end in a jagged tooth pattern instead of straight. That tiny amount of material saved made the company a lot of money. That style where the top is smaller than the body? That allows them to use thinner stock aluminium...saving a TON of money.

My friend worked for RCA in a clerical position but he redesigned their TV back plates to use only three screws rather than six. In the 1960s and 1970s he received $22,000 for this minor change that saved on the screws, labor and QC. Not an inconsiderable sum.

It is my opinion that any changes in manufacturing is done simply to cut cost and increase profit. Pipe tobacco is no different. Move production from the British Isles to the European Continent because you can use casings instead of condiment leaf to flavor...saves money. Package in 50 gr. instead of 2 oz., that was probably the most obvious. Use two Oriental varieties instead of three...saves money. Shorten the time you age you leaf and blend before shipping it...saves money.

Sounds cynical but I believe it to be true. Good changes can save money but mostly it's just cost cutting and I doubt that any change is implemented that results in higher costs. A Pound of Coffee is now closer to 11 ounces. A gallon of ice cream is 1-1/2 quarts.

 

[tslex]

I think one thing that's happening now is that while many fewer folks smoke pipes than did in earlier generations, a higher proportion of the current pipe smokers are connoisseurs of a sort. I certainly have many mroe varieties of tobacco, and am more open to new varieties, than my dad and uncles who -- though avid pipe guys -- tended to smoke one or two blends all the time. (My uncle Bob had a wonderful collection of pipes and a pipe was lit all the time -- but they always only ever had Half-Half in them.)
I also credit the internet -- I have access to tobaccos of limitless variety from all over marketplace. Our dads were limited to what the local B&Ms carried.

 

[jpmcwjr]

A slight tangent, but one relating to the future of legendary tobaccos: A tobacconist with a long history stated that none of the legends could faithfully reproduced today because the quality of tobacco available is not as good as it was in the 60's and before. I have no idea if it's true, but I trust that man's experience and judgement.
Comments?

 

[neverbend]

TSLex said...

I think one thing that's happening now is that while many fewer folks smoke pipes than did in earlier generations, a higher proportion of the current pipe smokers are connoisseurs of a sort. I certainly have many mroe varieties of tobacco, and am more open to new varieties, than my dad and uncles who -- though avid pipe guys -- tended to smoke one or two blends all the time...

I also credit the internet -- I have access to tobaccos of limitless variety from all over marketplace. Our dads were limited to what the local B&Ms carried.

Well said and I agree. I think that pipe and cigar smokers are more adventurous today. Better tobacconists carried a lot of labels but there are more today and even those from other countries, courtesy of the Internet.
JPMCWJR said...

A slight tangent, but one relating to the future of legendary tobaccos: A tobacconist with a long history stated that none of the legends could faithfully reproduced today because the quality of tobacco available is not as good as it was in the 60's and before. I have no idea if it's true, but I trust that man's experience and judgement.
Comments?

There are some relevant comments toward the beginning of the thread.

 

[okiescout]

I think younger people have greater, overt, interest in experiencing fine tobacco, wines, etc., abetted and amplified by the Internet. I see new smokers being introduced to better tobaccos and techniques earlier in the learning cycle. The tobacco trade was my living for too long for me to think of it as a 'hobby' but even in the 1970s I spoke of tobacco as an affordable luxury.
I agree, but also believe this is a product of their being born into the high technology age. In the 2nd grade we had a huge blue Laddie pencil and a Big Chief tablet. In the 2nd grade my grandchildren had a PC. My grand daughter had my cell phone for 5 minutes when she was 8 (now 16) and I had to have her dumb it back down so I could use it.

 

[northernneil]

A slight tangent, but one relating to the future of legendary tobaccos: A tobacconist with a long history stated that none of the legends could faithfully reproduced today because the quality of tobacco available is not as good as it was in the 60's and before.

I cannot say one way or the other if this is true, but as I understand it, the quality of tobacco available today is not the issue. The issue stems from variety available today. In the 60's there was a wide array of "oriental" tobaccos available to blenders, and being used in blends. Today's blenders do not have access to the same variety of oriental leaf from places like Yenidje, Macedonia and the like. They are using mainly orientals like Izmir and generic 'oriental blends', and just a whisper of the more rare stuff.
Again, this is how I understand it, and could be completely out to lunch.

 

[okiescout]

Today's blenders do not have access to the same variety of oriental leaf from places like Yenidje, Macedonia and the like. They are using mainly orientals like Izmir and generic 'oriental blends', and just a whisper of the more rare stuff.
Does this mean the seeds are not available? Those tobaccos are extinct? When I consider the way California/US wines were looked at in the wine industry a few decades ago, it would seem any seed stock could be matched to an alternate geographic location if the research was done.

 

[northernneil]

Does this mean the seeds are not available? Those tobaccos are extinct? When I consider the way California/US wines were looked at in the wine industry a few decades ago, it would seem any seed stock could be matched to an alternate geographic location if the research was done.

I'm sure the tobacco / seeds are available, just not farmed on a large scale. As for planting the seeds elsewhere in the world, you are now getting into the whole terroir argument / discussion.

 

[okiescout]

As for planting the seeds elsewhere in the world, you are now getting into the whole terroir argument / discussion.
I understand that, but my argument is how Cuban cigar seed was taken to SA and the great cigars that have come out of the venture :wink:

 

[northernneil]

I hear what you're saying. Not necessarily trying to re-create an extinct tobacco. Rather trying to find something that will be new and different on it's own merit. I love that idea!