Latest addition to my British collection
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Dave, I recently looked at a ton of American carvers when I think it was bigvan who posted a list of them. I was completely amazed at some of the prices these guys are getting for their pipes. A guy like Todd Johnson getting 700 plus for sandblasted pipes, 1500 plus for straight grains? The guy has been carving for what 6 years, but I don't think his pipes and lack of experience justify those prices. There are so many of these guys charging crazy money and honestly I am not too crazy about a lot of the weird shapes they carve. I recently saw a Mark Tinsky straight grain going for well over a grand, back in 02 you could buy his pipes for 100-150. Maybe I am wrong but when I see guys like Winslow,Castello, Radice, Camminetto, Don Carlos,Les Wood, Ashton, Barry Jones and guys with 30 plus year experience selling pipes for much less, I don't see how these guys with much less experience can charge what they do.
I did like a few of the Rad Davis pipes but again 300-500 for sandblasted pipes, no way. Give me a brand new Ferndown from Les Wood for a deuce all day over these guys.
I did like a few of the Rad Davis pipes but again 300-500 for sandblasted pipes, no way. Give me a brand new Ferndown from Les Wood for a deuce all day over these guys.
I should add that I have never held or smoked any of the No American guys so maybe I have my head up my ass. :crazy:
Dave, I was eyeballing a Rad Davis pipe on Ebay, but decided on grabbing that Dunhill for less money. I have always wondered how small time guys get their pick of good briar. I would think that established houses and long time carvers would get their choice above newer guys.
Dave, here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Here is a Michael Linder pipe that is just a basic sandblasted billiard. Why does he get 650.00 for something like this? Is it because he only makes 125 pipes a year and the laws of supply and demand take over?
http://www.smokershaven.com/michael-lindner-pipe-blasted-billiard-c1.aspx
http://www.smokershaven.com/michael-lindner-pipe-blasted-billiard-c1.aspx
It is a little bit about who you know, but it is mainly about cash money. You pay more for the best, and there isnt a lot of competition to spend $50+ per block of briar for the best.
Romeo Briar is considered one of the best briar cutters in the world and Mimmo who runs it is very approachable even to small time carvers. Hell, I'm no one important but I know people at 3 different briar mills just from hanging out with them in Chicago.
The difference between the American tradition and for the most part the European tradition is the size of the workshop. Nearly all of the American carvers work alone and start and finish one single pipe at a time. The Italian style (I dont know how much it applies to British makers) is basically an assembly line where one person sorts blocks, one person drills bowls, one person shapes, one person fits stems, one person buffs. Whether one way or the other is better I couldnt say, but I believe you end up with a different product when you make that product differently.
ryan, thanks for the info. I had no idea how the procurement of briar worked. So basically the guys who carve a pipe from start to finish will get more money than say a factory pipe like Castello. It makes sense I guess.
Yes, it is economics. I dont know Michael Linder, but I can break it down with just the numbers you put up. Premal Chedda (Smokers Haven) sells the pipe for $650. That means Michael got probably $300 for it. Take out $65 for the briar and ebonite to handcut the stem. Now we're down to $235. But realistically at least 1-3 blocks out of 10 will be rejected due to flaws, fissures, cracks, sandpits. So, he really has more than that tied up in each pipe.
But lets say he does make 125 pipes a year (I dont know) and they are all sold for this same profit margin, thats under $30,000 a year. Sounds like an OK living, but he also has $20,000+ in tools and equipment to maintain.
Plus being able to drop thousands of dollars at a time to restock raw materials.
Even if he makes more than $30,000 when its said and done, he's not raping anyone with his prices. Thats just what it takes to make a decent living at this and he will never get rich doing it.
Most people who buy American made pipes know they are supporting the pipemaker with their purchases, but thats not the only reason they drop this kind of money. I think they believe the pipes are worth the money, or they would just smoke Dunhills etc.
But lets say he does make 125 pipes a year (I dont know) and they are all sold for this same profit margin, thats under $30,000 a year. Sounds like an OK living, but he also has $20,000+ in tools and equipment to maintain.
Plus being able to drop thousands of dollars at a time to restock raw materials.
Even if he makes more than $30,000 when its said and done, he's not raping anyone with his prices. Thats just what it takes to make a decent living at this and he will never get rich doing it.
Most people who buy American made pipes know they are supporting the pipemaker with their purchases, but thats not the only reason they drop this kind of money. I think they believe the pipes are worth the money, or they would just smoke Dunhills etc.
I keep coming to the same conclusion.
The one pipe that really gave me pause, was the "Passion For Pipes Churchill" by Rad Davis because frankly that is my favorite shape period. But the $500 entry fee proved too steep a psychological barrier to climb. One day I'll get someone to execute this shape for me.
http://www.apassionforpipes.com/neills-blog/tag/winston-churchill
Ryan, I had no idea they made so little, damn I made more than that in 1981 in my first year as a rep for some jewelry mfgs. I guess they must do it because they have a passion for it, like any artist. My oldest son is going into his senior year at the Ringling College of Art and he wants me to buy him a briar kit so he can try his hand at making a pipe. He is a really good artist, maybe I can get him into it and have my own source for American made pipes. :lol:
Looks like I will have to keep my eye out on Ebay for some of these guys. I do like the idea of supporting American guys.
Looks like I will have to keep my eye out on Ebay for some of these guys. I do like the idea of supporting American guys.
I'm not saying pipemakers cant make more than that, but you get my point. You sure wont get rich doing it, even the guys making $10,000 pipes dont make more than any other professional.
Congrats to your son ! My mom also went to Ringling College of Art.
Wow, your mom went to Ringling. too cool. It is a great school, my son is in the graphic design program here. If it wasn't for the fact that he is there, my oldest daughter starts college in the fall and I have 2 more to put through school, I wouldn't think twice about adding a few high line American carvers to the collection.
I dont know what years it would have been, but Mom moved to Florida to go to school there. Dad is a Cracker, born in Zolfo Springs in 1931.
I got the Astley in yesterday and loaded up some SG Best Brown Flake. The pipe performed great, burned nice and cool, the tobacco tasted like it should, it was nice and light, a really great flake pipe. I am very glad I purchased it. I definitely recommend a Dunhill made Astley to anyone looking for a great pipe for a very reasonable amount of money. I have my eye on a couple of the Upshall made Astley's also, they should be a nice smoker.
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