James Upshall Pipes - A Discussion

Log in

SmokingPipes.com Updates

Watch for Updates Twice a Week

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,947
12,915
Covington, Louisiana
postimg.cc
Welcome Zayres.
I'd post a better close-up picture of the Tilshead stamp. Ken seems to be able to pick out dates based on the type of font used in a certain period (at least he can for James Upshall's).

 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
375
Oh, what a beautiful, beautiful Tilshead Natural. This pipe really inspires me as one of the true classical free-hands that we were making in the late 70s early eighties. This pipe was turned and shaped by Barry Jones, the craftsman and this has a real late 60s early 70s Charatan freehand style about it, that Barry used to make from the late 1950s.Even though it is a James Upshall 'second' it really hits the fact home to me that Barry would treat each pipe as though it was the most expensive he ever produced. He would spend the same amount of his time and skill on 'seconds' as he would on the highest quality - possibly more time. This pipe was left absolutely natural - no stain has been applied to it and the only difference between this and an Upshall is the very small flaws that we left 'plain to see'. In this occasion I can see one of the small flaws on the shank. Many manufacturers would drill these out and fill them with a mastic filler which, after time would turn a different colour or sometimes fall out. We never filled any pipe. I could write a book about this pipe. You will never find another one like it.

 

zayres

Lurker
Jan 2, 2017
2
0
Wow, Ken, thank you so much for the first hand knowledge of my Tilshead's creation! Your insight has increased my appreciation of the object and added a great deal of personal value. I will treasure it!
As suggested by ssjones, I am including additional pictures of the stampings. Upon very close examination, I also noticed that the "Made by Hand" stamp appears to be a double-strike. For fun, I took a pic that includes the only two imperfections I could locate. They are both within about a centimeter of each other, conveniently located on the underside of the shank, close to the end.
As far as my questions are concerned, from your reply, I'm reading that the pipe was made in the early years, but I'd love to hear your best shot at a more precise date if the pictures are helpful. I understand that it is a freehand, and so the shape is unique, and that it is an unstained natural finish (which I really love), and so my concern that it didn't have the same shininess that I see elsewhere is needless!
That just leaves my curiousity regarding whether this stem appears to be one that would have been used originally, and what this grain would be considered.
Thanks again for your reply! I already feel very welcome here.
sQQzXeh.jpg

K1ZaKMY.jpg

Wlvetfl.jpg


 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
375
As this Tilshead Natural is not stained in any way, you can wipe the bowl with something like pure alcohol (or near enough) which will clean the surface dirt from the bowl and mouthpiece and then apply some natural non- silicone beeswax on a J-cloth and polish the pipe. It will give you more of an idea of what it looked like when it was new. As far as the date of this pipe is concerned, I would suggest somewhere around 1981. The stamp marks on the shank suggest this, but more importantly is the 'marriage' between the bowl and the mouthpiece. As all these pipes are hand-turned, at that time we used to leave the shanks as long as possible (from the saw) and when it came to fitting the bowl with a mouthpiece we were quite limited at that time on mouthpiece selection. These mouthpieces were supplied to us by New York Hamburger Gummi Waren and at that time we had a limited selection of thick saddle mouthpieces. i.e. we had no saddles an inch shorter than this one, which, in my opinion would be a better marriage. Later on in 1982, we were able to access more variations of shorter saddles from Jeantet.

 
Jan 10, 2014
48
2
In late 1997, Mordechai “Moty” Ezrati, an Israeli millionaire pipe enthusiast, purchased the English pipe company, James Upshall, that had been in receivership for a £80,000 debt. Ezrati told media he wanted to save the venerable pipe brand. However, Ezrati has been criticized for buying old Astley (Jermyn Street, London, now defunct), cheap Comoy and Charatans, sanding and re-stamping them as Upshall estate pipes. Because Ezrati owns the Upshall name he has the legal right to this, but the practice is highly questionable at best, scandalously deceptive and possibly criminally culpable at worst.
As much as I hoped these accusations were false, at least one pipe Ezrati offered for sale substantiates the accusation. I found a bent apple with a saddle bit that Ezrati offered on eBay, transaction no. 401071663413, for the “Buy It Now” price of ₤224.99 under the heading, “1982 JAMES UPSHALL HIGH GRADE B FREEHAND FULL BENT NEW NO RESERVE.” The “James Upshall” cartouche on the left side along with the grade B, FH (freehand) and size 4 codes were obviously newly engraved. What gave the pipe away as a bogus, recently refinished pipe originally made by another manufacturer was the JU in a circle logo on the top of the stem and the engraved cartouche and other information on the shank. Upshall did not begin applying the circled JU logo to its stems until 1996, fourteen years after the purported date of this pipe’s manufacture. Additionally, in 1982 the shank cartouche bearing the Upshall name was stamped, not engraved. Mr. Ezrati cannot escape culpability for materially misrepresenting the pipe’s date of manufacture or its provenance in this instance because his name and address in Brenchley, Kent, were printed right in the auction notice. When purchasing Upshall pipes, caveat emptor. Those that Ezrati or “jamesupshallpipeco” offer for sale by should be entirely avoided.
It is particularly sad is that the pipes are being counterfeited by the manufacturer. I can well imagine Ezrati defending himself by claiming that his company is the putative victim, that Upshall cannot possibly counterfeit its own pipes and that no one is harmed. He is wrong. The provenance claims are lies and he is materially misleading the buying public.

 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
375
gnesiohamartolo

First of all thank you for your post. I found it very interesting and have gained a better perspective on how all this can impact on pipe smokers/ collectors.

As I have mentioned before, I know that Barry Jones felt really de-valued when asked to strip pipes like Dr. Plumb and stamp/engrave Upshall on them - soul destroying. I think that there was an element of insanity in the mix as it was not as though the workshop had run out of briar. I know that recently Moty's widow, Karen, sold the remaining plateau briar for less than it was purchased for.

I have tried to search for this 1982 B grade on ebay without success.

Upshall did not begin applying the circled JU logo to its stems until 1996, fourteen years after the purported date of this pipe’s manufacture.

I seem to recall that the J.U 'stamp' surrounded with the circle on the mouthpiece was the norm between 1980-1989. If my memory serves me well, the first J.Us in 1978-1979 had no circle but after that time we decided to change this (although it is more difficult to stamp the mouthpiece with a ring around the initials).

I have only one issue with this seller (as I have not seen any of these bogus Upshalls yet)and that is when she states that an Astley freehand was made by Dunhill when it is clear that it was made at Tilshead and has the 'made by hand' stamp which we used on the reverse side of the shank. That is very misleading and obviously a false declaration. Part of me thinks that Karen (the seller) knows absolutely nothing about pipes and is merely selling her late husband's 'collection', although that may well be naïvity /gullibility/lack of wisdom/or innocence on my part.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,947
12,915
Covington, Louisiana
postimg.cc
Odd, my "favorites" notification for this thread had turned itself off.
Now that Moty has passed away, it does appear that Karen is selling many of his pipes. I think the dates they assign to their ebay offerings has always been wildly speculative. A few years ago, I purchased an estate P-grade from the JB Hayes shop in Washington DC. I emailed Moty about it and the date. He said it was made in a particular year (I have that specific date somewhere in an email). I mentioned this to John at the shop,but he felt that date was incorrect. A few months later, at the JB Hayes shop, John Hayes found his invoices from James Upshall and showed me that the pipe was ordered years before the date Moty gave me (John was the original seller to a regular customer, an Army colonel who later retired to DC, died and his estate pipes were re-sold by the shop).
At that point, I began avoiding pipes sold by Moty.
Can you get a nice pipe from them? Probably, but I'll pass.

 

jensen

Can't Leave
Apr 10, 2016
440
144
In 1983 Kennedy Barnes sent me a P grade Canadian with James Upshall engraved in the stem and JU in a circle on the mouthpiece.
Anyone who knows a little can see that these Astley`s made by Dunhill manufactures are not made by Dunhill.
Not long ago I bought two Tilsheads from Karen M. They are made by Barry Jones no doubt about that and thats fine.

 

bentbob

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 13, 2015
182
1
Odd, my "favorites" notification for this thread had turned itself off.
Didn't know there was a "favourites" button! I wondered how you chaps managed to keep all the posts going as I can't keep up with them. I just assumed you had nothing better to do than spend all day on the forum.
:D

 
Dec 10, 2013
2,604
3,325
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Good morning campers,
Ken , Neverbend and all you friends :
Did JU ever carve "Gold" graded ( 9 mm filter ) pipes ?
One emerged on the Bay and a renown pipeshop sold one in 2009 for $325,00 .
I feel uncomfortable.

 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
375
Did JU ever carve "Gold" graded ( 9 mm filter ) pipes ?

I am not sure what you mean when you say "Gold" graded pipes. If you mean 'did we ever have a quality called 'gold', the answer is no, not between 1978-1989 anyway'. We did use to stamp the JU on the mouthpiece in gold on the highest grades I think it was on the 'E', 'X' and 'XX'. It would be interesting to have a link relating to one of these gold-graded pipes.

 
Dec 10, 2013
2,604
3,325
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Hello Ken,
Thank you for chiming in, here you are :
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/england/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=50551
This pipe does not have the usual grade stamp .
And this one :
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Estate-Pfeife-Pipe-Pipa-JAMES-UBSHAL-GOLD-TILSHED-ENGLAND-MADE-BY-HAND-9mm-Fi-/382065160465?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=SW1mt%252BfOH9au6KfKtBsura4s8OM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
610
As I have mentioned before, I know that Barry Jones felt really de-valued when asked to strip pipes like Dr. Plumb and stamp/engrave Upshall on them - soul destroying. I think that there was an element of insanity in the mix as it was not as though the workshop had run out of briar. I know that recently Moty's widow, Karen, sold the remaining plateau briar for less than it was purchased for.
Ken, I'm glad you shared that, because Barry Jones's role in that whole fiasco has been a total mystery to many of us. I can only assume that he needed the work and was therefore in a tough spot.
Moreover, the fact that Jones himself confirmed this clears up another question we've had -- whether the creation of spurious Upshall and Astley pipes was simply an occasional accident or a deliberate undertaking. Sad to hear that it was the latter.

 

lasttango

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 29, 2012
875
18
Wilmington, De / Ithaca, NY
How can I be sure that I am buying a Tillshead or Upshall that Ken or Ken and Barry had a hand in? Respectable B+M's like The Briary have a bunch for sale unsmoked. Mklew, Pipes2smoke and Smoking pipes have nice estates. Man, I really want a nice large Upshall or Charatan Skater with some nice grain. New or used. Its my very obtainable white whale.

 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
375
Thanks orlandofurioso for the links. I learn everyday. The only country for which we made 9mm filter was Germany. Our importers at the time were H. Seiffert of Kassel, who were a very professional organisation and imported one name from each pipe-making country, i.e. Peterson of Ireland, Swendbourg and Tao from Denmark, Savinelli from Italy and Upshall from England. Making 6 and 9mm filter pipes was a major hassle for us and possibly other pipe-makers and the bowls had to be selected at a very early stage in the production. Also the 9mm would force us to make shanks thicker than we would like to and this in turn would influence/affect the mindset or culture of the style of the Upshall generally -absolute nightmare! The Poker looks like it was made in the 1990s and I reckon Detlef Seiffert saw a 'G' grade Upshall with the gold stamped JU on the mouthpiece and thought 'Gold', and asked Barry to call the 'G' Grades Gold. That is the grade the Poker would have been looking at the fairly poor photos.The second one (also for the German market) the 'prince/apple' has got to be the poorest looking light coloured Upshall I have ever seen. Extremely poor graining and very poor shaping - I am quite amazed it went for 30 + euros - awful looking piece. My gut feeling is this was made later and when the briar was mediocre. Do you see how thick the shank is to incorporate a 9mm filter and, as a consequence, in my opinion, has 'killed' the shape. Grain-wise this Upshall is as bald as a badger's backside.