James Upshall "Old England" Grade
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This information is fascinating for me, as I have 4 unsmoked James Upshall Sterling Banded "P" grades that I've been trying to document the dating. I purchased them new in 1979, so they very likely are from Barry Jones first year of production at Tilshead. Information to date Upshall production is thin, however, and your historical pieces here in the forum are the first I've seen with any level of detail. Could you possibly steer me to any sources that would help me to document production dates?
Thanks!
This information is fascinating for me, as I have 4 unsmoked James Upshall Sterling Banded "P" grades that I've been trying to document the dating. I purchased them new in 1979, so they very likely are from Barry Jones first year of production at Tilshead. Information to date Upshall production is thin, however, and your historical pieces here in the forum are the first I've seen with any level of detail. Could you possibly steer me to any sources that would help me to document production dates?
Thanks!
Randy: Welcome to the forum. As you might have guessed, I'm a James Upshall fan. Please post your pipes in the "show us" thread:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/show-off-your-james-upshall-amp-tilshead-pipes
I also have a silver banded P and would love to see yours.
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/show-off-your-james-upshall-amp-tilshead-pipes
I also have a silver banded P and would love to see yours.
Here are 3 of my 4 Upshalls. I have another Dublin that I haven't gotten pics of yet. I purchased these new in 1979, so they are very likely from Barry Jones first year's production at Tilshead.
Wow... sorry these are a bit large for the forum... I'll have to revisit the sizing!
*edit* - and sorry I put them in the wrong forum!
Wow... sorry these are a bit large for the forum... I'll have to revisit the sizing!
*edit* - and sorry I put them in the wrong forum!
Hi Randy and welcome to the the forum.
I believe my dates and timeframes to be accurate but I’m going deep into old memories here and my knowledge of them extends through the early 1990s.
Upshalls are difficult to date but a few facts that can help.
Tilshead Pipe Company acquired a New Hermes engraving machine about August of 1983 and the James Upshall nomenclature, the grade (usually) and the stem logo were engraved from that time onward. All pipes also had two hand stamps, Tilshead England and Made by Hand. Odd sized pieces that didn’t fit the engraving chuck or lacked room for the engraving head had hand stamps of the grade and very rarely the bowl and they are the exceptions. Tilsheads, the Upshall 2nds, were only hand stamped.
It’s possible that stems with an engraved logo will appear on a pipe if it was a factory replacement. The bulk of replacements though, done by repair services, will have used a heat embossed logo. Thus it’s possible but it would be rare, to have a stamped bowl and engraved stem logo.
Thus the rule is; If the name, James Upshall (in the oval) is engraved then the pipe was made from mid 1983 onward and it’s not possible that it was made before that time.
Upshall kept a supply of plain silver bands at the factory through the latter part of 1982 that they used for decoration and repair. From 1983 onward, their sterling and gold work was done by Les Wood (L&JS Silverware and Ferndown) and all but a few had patterns or filigree. Les did make some sterling military mounts for them too and small (gold) bands (width) had no decoration.
I can’t tell you exactly when pipes began to bear the James Upshall logo. Perhaps Barry knows but the company was incorporated in 1978 as the Tilshead Pipe Company and if they weren’t already making branded Upshalls, they were soon after. There are pipes that were made by Barry before the incorporation but I don’t know how they were marked. The earliest Upshalls then would have been made in 1978.
There are differences in staining, finish and shaping that can be used to make an educated guess about when the pipes were made as Upshall moved away from Charatan shaping to their own distinctive style but none of this is definitive.
Hope that this helps.
Pete
I believe my dates and timeframes to be accurate but I’m going deep into old memories here and my knowledge of them extends through the early 1990s.
Upshalls are difficult to date but a few facts that can help.
Tilshead Pipe Company acquired a New Hermes engraving machine about August of 1983 and the James Upshall nomenclature, the grade (usually) and the stem logo were engraved from that time onward. All pipes also had two hand stamps, Tilshead England and Made by Hand. Odd sized pieces that didn’t fit the engraving chuck or lacked room for the engraving head had hand stamps of the grade and very rarely the bowl and they are the exceptions. Tilsheads, the Upshall 2nds, were only hand stamped.
It’s possible that stems with an engraved logo will appear on a pipe if it was a factory replacement. The bulk of replacements though, done by repair services, will have used a heat embossed logo. Thus it’s possible but it would be rare, to have a stamped bowl and engraved stem logo.
Thus the rule is; If the name, James Upshall (in the oval) is engraved then the pipe was made from mid 1983 onward and it’s not possible that it was made before that time.
Upshall kept a supply of plain silver bands at the factory through the latter part of 1982 that they used for decoration and repair. From 1983 onward, their sterling and gold work was done by Les Wood (L&JS Silverware and Ferndown) and all but a few had patterns or filigree. Les did make some sterling military mounts for them too and small (gold) bands (width) had no decoration.
I can’t tell you exactly when pipes began to bear the James Upshall logo. Perhaps Barry knows but the company was incorporated in 1978 as the Tilshead Pipe Company and if they weren’t already making branded Upshalls, they were soon after. There are pipes that were made by Barry before the incorporation but I don’t know how they were marked. The earliest Upshalls then would have been made in 1978.
There are differences in staining, finish and shaping that can be used to make an educated guess about when the pipes were made as Upshall moved away from Charatan shaping to their own distinctive style but none of this is definitive.
Hope that this helps.
Pete
Hello Pete,
Thanks so much for all this historical information. The history really is fascinating to me, and it has certainly shed some light on when these pipes were produced. I am not sure, however, that my eye is trained enough to recognize the difference between engraving and stamping. The large Bulldog seems to have a very, very slight double registration of the James Upshall inside the oval on the left side. That might suggest that it was stamped rather than engraved, and that the stamp may have bounced or was re-applied for some reason? I also recall reading somewhere that the Upshall pipes were engraved after finishing, which would suggest that the natural unstained color of the briar would show through the engraving marks? I see stained color throughout the relief in all the nomenclature. All the silver bands have no pattern or filagree, other than the mark "STERLING".
You will turn me into a proper pipe sleuth eventually! I guess I will peg these prior to mid 1983. I also will try to reconstruct the chronology of where I was living at the time, as it's possible these could have been purchased a bit later than 1979, but not much.
Thanks again for the help, and I look forward to more of your insights.
Randy
Thanks so much for all this historical information. The history really is fascinating to me, and it has certainly shed some light on when these pipes were produced. I am not sure, however, that my eye is trained enough to recognize the difference between engraving and stamping. The large Bulldog seems to have a very, very slight double registration of the James Upshall inside the oval on the left side. That might suggest that it was stamped rather than engraved, and that the stamp may have bounced or was re-applied for some reason? I also recall reading somewhere that the Upshall pipes were engraved after finishing, which would suggest that the natural unstained color of the briar would show through the engraving marks? I see stained color throughout the relief in all the nomenclature. All the silver bands have no pattern or filagree, other than the mark "STERLING".
You will turn me into a proper pipe sleuth eventually! I guess I will peg these prior to mid 1983. I also will try to reconstruct the chronology of where I was living at the time, as it's possible these could have been purchased a bit later than 1979, but not much.
Thanks again for the help, and I look forward to more of your insights.
Randy
I recall now where I saw these other factoids...
The old Upshall USA website states that the JU logos that appeared on the left side of the stem were early production and were stamped. Also, there is a photo of an engraved logo. The natural tone of the briar most definitely shows in the engraving, and the grade is in close proximity and orientation to the James Upshall oval logo. The photo also shows a size engraved to the right of the logo (begun in 1996?). Based on this photo, my Upshalls are most definitely stamped, and have no size included. The "P" grade is stamped far to the left, almost where the shank meets the bowl. I've reconstructed my residency around that time, and these were definitely purchased prior to August 1981, most likely over a time between 1980 and mid 1981.
I love it when the trail leads somewhere! Thanks again, Pete!
The old Upshall USA website states that the JU logos that appeared on the left side of the stem were early production and were stamped. Also, there is a photo of an engraved logo. The natural tone of the briar most definitely shows in the engraving, and the grade is in close proximity and orientation to the James Upshall oval logo. The photo also shows a size engraved to the right of the logo (begun in 1996?). Based on this photo, my Upshalls are most definitely stamped, and have no size included. The "P" grade is stamped far to the left, almost where the shank meets the bowl. I've reconstructed my residency around that time, and these were definitely purchased prior to August 1981, most likely over a time between 1980 and mid 1981.
I love it when the trail leads somewhere! Thanks again, Pete!
Some fascinating information has been posted here in the past few days.
Gigger: I've never met anyone who has bought a commission from Upshall in recent years. Barry Jones seems to have dropped out of site, I'm not even certain he is still working for Moty Ezrati.
Gigger: I've never met anyone who has bought a commission from Upshall in recent years. Barry Jones seems to have dropped out of site, I'm not even certain he is still working for Moty Ezrati.
Hi Randy,
Most, if not all pipes, from any manufacturer, are marked after they’re essentially finished. It’s the last step other than a polishing buff before heading out the door. You’re correct that the briar beneath the engraved elements was lighter but the color fills in with the patina.
I can’t see the engraving well enough in your pics but from other characteristics only the dublin (third pipe) may be from 1983 onward.
Double stamping by hand wasn’t uncommon for most manufacturers (for the reasons that you mentioned) and I’ve seen some engraved Upshalls where the stylus was worn (too low) and the chuck head makes a ghost of the image on the pipe. Most of the ghosted engraved Upshalls were from 1983 and early 1984 (learning curve with a new piece of machinery).
Upshall grade markings were often stamped and not engraved and usually appear near the bowl (that’s why they often weren’t engraved). The JU stem logo on the side isn’t something that I can confirm and many pipes from the ‘Engraved Period’ have the logo on the side or top of the stem usually based on shape. There’s no way to put the logo on the side of a canadian stem. If there was a conscious effort to follow a pattern of logo placement then I’m not aware of it.
Upshall began to use size stamping, like the Lxxx marks on long shanked canadians around 1986 but other size markings are from later years. Empire Series pipes were selected to a large extent based on size (and shape).
Hi Gigger,
Your pipe sounds like a later Upshall, certainly after 1992. There were some Upshall carves and sandblasts made before 1990 but they are very rare and I don’t know of any part carved pipes made before this date.
I can’t comment on Upshall after 1992. By that time, Barry Jones was in control of the company and Kennedy Barnes had left. I don’t know Moti (current owner) other than a few exchanged emails.
As far as the celebrities who own Upshalls, I know of that some were bought through normal retail channels and that during the Kennedy Barnes era he referred most customers to retail channels. Tom Selleck is an interesting case because he frequented Hugh Getzenberg’s Smoke Shop in Century City CA in the early 1980s and may have purchased Upshalls then. The interesting part of a Selleck connection is that his wife, Jillie Mack, was born in Devizes, Wiltshire, England, a town just 10 miles north of Tilshead on route A360 (I believe it used to be called Devizes Road). If driving South, towards Salisbury on A360, from Devizes you would pass within (about) 100 yards of the Upshall factory (make a right on Candown Road and you’re there) and Stonehenge is about 6 miles further south. Did Selleck stop at the factory and perhaps purchase pipes? Very strong possibility.
I believe that Barry’s sons (Nicholas, Peter and another whose name escapes me) worked with him at the factory in the 1990s and perhaps beyond. I’m not sure what you refer when you say that they turned down attempts to become Upshall distributors?
Hope that I got to all the questions that were asked and I’ll comment on Upshall briar in the next post.
Pete
Most, if not all pipes, from any manufacturer, are marked after they’re essentially finished. It’s the last step other than a polishing buff before heading out the door. You’re correct that the briar beneath the engraved elements was lighter but the color fills in with the patina.
I can’t see the engraving well enough in your pics but from other characteristics only the dublin (third pipe) may be from 1983 onward.
Double stamping by hand wasn’t uncommon for most manufacturers (for the reasons that you mentioned) and I’ve seen some engraved Upshalls where the stylus was worn (too low) and the chuck head makes a ghost of the image on the pipe. Most of the ghosted engraved Upshalls were from 1983 and early 1984 (learning curve with a new piece of machinery).
Upshall grade markings were often stamped and not engraved and usually appear near the bowl (that’s why they often weren’t engraved). The JU stem logo on the side isn’t something that I can confirm and many pipes from the ‘Engraved Period’ have the logo on the side or top of the stem usually based on shape. There’s no way to put the logo on the side of a canadian stem. If there was a conscious effort to follow a pattern of logo placement then I’m not aware of it.
Upshall began to use size stamping, like the Lxxx marks on long shanked canadians around 1986 but other size markings are from later years. Empire Series pipes were selected to a large extent based on size (and shape).
Hi Gigger,
Your pipe sounds like a later Upshall, certainly after 1992. There were some Upshall carves and sandblasts made before 1990 but they are very rare and I don’t know of any part carved pipes made before this date.
I can’t comment on Upshall after 1992. By that time, Barry Jones was in control of the company and Kennedy Barnes had left. I don’t know Moti (current owner) other than a few exchanged emails.
As far as the celebrities who own Upshalls, I know of that some were bought through normal retail channels and that during the Kennedy Barnes era he referred most customers to retail channels. Tom Selleck is an interesting case because he frequented Hugh Getzenberg’s Smoke Shop in Century City CA in the early 1980s and may have purchased Upshalls then. The interesting part of a Selleck connection is that his wife, Jillie Mack, was born in Devizes, Wiltshire, England, a town just 10 miles north of Tilshead on route A360 (I believe it used to be called Devizes Road). If driving South, towards Salisbury on A360, from Devizes you would pass within (about) 100 yards of the Upshall factory (make a right on Candown Road and you’re there) and Stonehenge is about 6 miles further south. Did Selleck stop at the factory and perhaps purchase pipes? Very strong possibility.
I believe that Barry’s sons (Nicholas, Peter and another whose name escapes me) worked with him at the factory in the 1990s and perhaps beyond. I’m not sure what you refer when you say that they turned down attempts to become Upshall distributors?
Hope that I got to all the questions that were asked and I’ll comment on Upshall briar in the next post.
Pete
Here's a link to some higher resolution photos of the Dublin... I'll attempt to get the other photos up later tonight. I double checked my residency whereabouts 35 years ago... these were all definitley obtained prior to August 1981.
James Upshall Bent Dublin "P" Saddle
James Upshall Bent Dublin "P" Saddle
Randy
I own several upshalls and I love the way they smoke, but I am currently searching out older briar and trying to decide whether older briar is truly the key, as some would say
My question was in regards to the age of the briar, say, compared to Barlings and how long upshall kept the wood stored for it to be fully dried out. Since upshall obtained their briar in the 1980's, I was wondering how old could the briar be?
I own several upshalls and I love the way they smoke, but I am currently searching out older briar and trying to decide whether older briar is truly the key, as some would say
Al,
Your carve is a later pipe even though it’s hand stamped. I don’t remember when this stamp was put into use and it may be after 1992.
Randy,
Your dublin isn’t engraved and it has the old stem logo (with a period between the J and U) so on evidence 1980 or so sounds plausible.
I wouldn’t fret the sand spots. It’s a rare pipe indeed, at ANY price that doesn’t have them. No company, to my knowledge, did a better or more generous grading of their bowls on quality than Upshall. Stain is used to hide spots but rest assured that they exist on (most) of the uber expensive pipes. Moreover, flaws and sand spots are under the surface of most pipes but you don’t see them.
Upshall had at least two USA importers. Major Barnes had a lot of connections that he used to set up a distribution network for Upshall. Initially, Germany was their big market (I forget the distributors last name but it started with an ‘S’) but they were also represented by Mario Lubinsky in Italy and Marion Lezack in the USA. They also made many of Astley’s top end pipes (private label).
Upshall really took off in mid 1982 when they changed importers to Marble Arch who established them as the largest selling hand made pipe in the world at that time. I’m not sure when the relationship with Marble Arch ended, nor when Moty Ezrati entered the picture.
A fuller history of the relationship between the Tilshead Pipe Company and Marble Arch could be lengthy.
Allan,
I will write something about briar, both it’s age and properties as well as what James Upshall used. Age of briar isn’t an absolute, even if you knew the age of the bush that it was taken from. Every briar block is a range of ages, the closer to the stem the younger it is, so as long as there's depth it could be 40-50 years old, etc.
Your carve is a later pipe even though it’s hand stamped. I don’t remember when this stamp was put into use and it may be after 1992.
Randy,
Your dublin isn’t engraved and it has the old stem logo (with a period between the J and U) so on evidence 1980 or so sounds plausible.
I wouldn’t fret the sand spots. It’s a rare pipe indeed, at ANY price that doesn’t have them. No company, to my knowledge, did a better or more generous grading of their bowls on quality than Upshall. Stain is used to hide spots but rest assured that they exist on (most) of the uber expensive pipes. Moreover, flaws and sand spots are under the surface of most pipes but you don’t see them.
Upshall had at least two USA importers. Major Barnes had a lot of connections that he used to set up a distribution network for Upshall. Initially, Germany was their big market (I forget the distributors last name but it started with an ‘S’) but they were also represented by Mario Lubinsky in Italy and Marion Lezack in the USA. They also made many of Astley’s top end pipes (private label).
Upshall really took off in mid 1982 when they changed importers to Marble Arch who established them as the largest selling hand made pipe in the world at that time. I’m not sure when the relationship with Marble Arch ended, nor when Moty Ezrati entered the picture.
A fuller history of the relationship between the Tilshead Pipe Company and Marble Arch could be lengthy.
Allan,
I will write something about briar, both it’s age and properties as well as what James Upshall used. Age of briar isn’t an absolute, even if you knew the age of the bush that it was taken from. Every briar block is a range of ages, the closer to the stem the younger it is, so as long as there's depth it could be 40-50 years old, etc.
To clarify
Briar grows outward from the stem of the plant so that the oldest part of the wood is always the outermost layer. As you move inward toward the stem the wood has less age. Thus every block is a range of age from it’s oldest growth to it’s newest.
Briar grows outward from the stem of the plant so that the oldest part of the wood is always the outermost layer. As you move inward toward the stem the wood has less age. Thus every block is a range of age from it’s oldest growth to it’s newest.
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