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Casual

Preferred Member
Oct 3, 2019
2,294
8,108
NL, CA
That's sad. Where do you live and what is your tax rate? I can't believe it's 100%!

Let’s say you import a 2oz tin of American pipe tobacco to Newfoundland and pay all the taxes and duties as specified in the legislation. Here’s what you would owe, assuming it’s all charged appropriately:

- $7.45 per 1.75 oz (50g) or part thereof federal tax ($14.90 for a 2oz tin).

- $0.40 per gram provincial tax ($22.80 for a 2oz or 57g tin).

- 15% sales tax, or, say, two bucks on your average tin. Half federal, half provincial.

- A $9.95 fee charged by the customs agency for performing the valuable service of charging the rest of the above fees.

If it’s all assessed properly and charged, you end up paying an additional CAD$50 on a USD$10 tin of tobacco.

Oh, and if you order more than 200g (about 7oz) it’s simply not allowed unless you’re a federally licensed tobacco importer. So if you order a 1 pound bag of Daughters and Ryan, better hope they don’t see it or lube up.

Luckily they don’t always choose to do it all by the book. We are sometimes saved by neglect.
 
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cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
26,085
30,142
Helena, Alabama
why is second hand smoke allowed or tolerated when it comes to cannabis use?
I have no idea where you get this idea. In most states that have legalized cannabis, all I hear from friends who live there is that no one tolerates stoners lighting up just anywhere. You can get arrested just lighting up in a park or a bar.
 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
35,603
35,185
Since smokers are in the minority, and since pipe smokers are a minuscule minority, we all look like prime rib revenue streams for states and localities. Anyone who has the misfortune to need assisted care, but who would still like a daily or weekly pipe bowl, is probably out of luck. Oxygen tanks indoors, and lack of staff to accompany you outdoors. This is a pleasure that is fleeting. Alas. No matter how vast your cellar. Okay, enough grimness; back to upbeat.
 

WebsterDitty

New member
Nov 8, 2019
22
29
Michigan
“I have no idea where you get this idea.”

The dangers of second hand smoke is one of the reasons why we need to get rid of smoking tobacco. But, second hand smoke from cannabis is never mentioned.
 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
8,965
5,118
casual: That's not what the poster wrote. Perhaps I parsed incorrectly but, he wrote "but can't recall many times the taxman doesn't just keep it all:)"

"But, second hand smoke from cannabis is never mentioned." You are conflating the discussion. Cannabis isn't part of the discussion. Tobacco is the target not, cannabis. So, why would cannabis be treated in the same manner? Society is loosening up the laws on marijuana and tightening the tobacco laws. Two different targets. Society is embracing marijuana. It is certainly not doing the same for tobacco products. I think the distinction is pretty obvious.
 

Casual

Preferred Member
Oct 3, 2019
2,294
8,108
NL, CA
casual: That's not what the poster wrote. Perhaps I parsed incorrectly but, he wrote "but can't recall many times the taxman doesn't just keep it all:)"

I misunderstood the conversation. But I’m still flabbergasted when listing out our taxes, so I’ll leave it up as a friendly warning to others.
 

lukasstrifeson

Preferred Member
Jun 23, 2019
1,152
7,525
“I have no idea where you get this idea.”

The dangers of second hand smoke is one of the reasons why we need to get rid of smoking tobacco. But, second hand smoke from cannabis is never mentioned.

Aside from the fact that marijuana use (even in legal states) is heavily restricted to specific area and/or private property, which is probably on par to or if not more strict than for tobacco use; second-hand marijuana smoke has not been shown to have the same adverse and permanent effects on health as second-hand tobacco smoke.
 
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olkofri

Preferred Member
Sep 9, 2017
7,265
11,870
The Arm of Orion
The best thing that you can do is write, often, to your state and federal representatives. Let them know your position and that you will only vote for reps who share your views. Apathy is an enemy.
Not anymore. That is now useless and only paints a big target on your back. You should see some of the idiotic responses we got from politicos when we sent out letters protesting the plain packaging.

Here's a sample, right from the office of one of the top Librano$:

Thank you for writing to Chrystia regarding cigars and pipe tobacco products and the Tobacco Products Regulations (Plain and Standardized Appearance).
The evidence of the long-term health risks associated with tobacco use is clear. Exposure to tobacco increases a person's risk of developing cancer or other life-threatening diseases. For this reason, we are proposing that the plain and standardized packaging measures apply to all tobacco products, including premium cigars and specialty tobacco. The World Health Organization has also adopted guidelines for the implementation of plain and standardized packaging which recommend that all tobacco products be covered by these measures.
Furthermore, there is international precedent for including cigars in plain packaging regulations. Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and several other countries have included cigars in their plain packaging measures. France did not apply plain packaging measures to all products, and has seen greater promotion of those products that were exempt, including shisha and cigarillos.
In terms of cigar use among Canadian youth, based on 2016/17 data from the Canadian Student Tobacco, Alcohol and Drugs Survey, 2.5% of students in grades 7-12 had used a cigar in the past 30 days. The highest rate of use was among males in grades 10-12, 6.7% of whom had used a cigar in the past 30 days. These numbers are similar to the rates at which youth used menthol cigarettes before Health Canada took action to ban menthol in most tobacco products.
Our government believes that tobacco packaging and the products they contain are powerful promotional vehicles. Research has shown that plain and standardized packaging for tobacco reduces its appeal and attractiveness, especially among young people. We believe introducing plain packaging requirements is an important step forward in protecting Canadians, particularly youth, from health hazards stemming from tobacco use.
Thank you again for providing your feedback on these proposed regulations. All feedback and evidence submitted during public consultations on this issue are currently being considered as the regulations are being finalized.
Sincerely,
* * * * * * , Riding Manager
Office of the Hon. Chrystia Freeland
Member of Parliament of University-Rosedale

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Conclusion: Don't bother writing to them.
 
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warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
8,965
5,118
I also make a distinction between taxes we must pay and those we choose to pay. In the US we are not, in my opinion, unduly taxed with regard to income and property taxes. Tobacco taxes we all choose to pay. We can rail against them but, we can also choose not to pay such tax by not using the taxed products.

So bitchin' and moanin' about taxes we choose to pay seems to me to be a big waste of effort, breath and time. But, complaining can be therapeutic ... I suppose so ... carry on if it helps you to bear your chosen burden.

I should add, I am only addressing the US situation.
 
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Kilgore Trout

Preferred Member
Nov 5, 2019
577
4,498
Conclusion: Don't bother writing to them.

Then don't complain when legislation is passed that you don't like. You just reinforced my point about apathy.
Al least in Canada the government can make the argument that since they are providing the citizenry with healthcare the additional tax revenue brought in from tobacco can be used to offset the additional health care costs for tobacco users.
In the United States we don't get anything like that for our tax dollars, so the government has no justification.
 

olkofri

Preferred Member
Sep 9, 2017
7,265
11,870
The Arm of Orion
Then don't complain when legislation is passed that you don't like. You just reinforced my point about apathy.
The reason for the 'apathy' is that legislation IS passed whether you, me, and others like it or not. We smokers are simply not a majority anymore and are easily overruled by appeals to public health, bogus science, and saving the children. It's clear these people are NOT going to listen to the electorate, but to whoever donates them the most money. Have you pockets as deep as the Cancer Society or other lobby groups? Then you don't stand a chance.

There's little consolation in saying you disagreed publicly with a law that was passed anyway. The real solution is for such law not to pass in the first place, or to be repealed if it did.
 
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cigrmaster

Preferred Member
May 26, 2012
17,705
35,559
63
Sarasota Florida
I live in Florida, hardly a nanny state. In 2009 or so the Florida legislature put a 85% wholesale tax on pipe tobacco and a zero percent tax on cigars. I loaded my cellar up years ago and never bought another tin in this state once the tax was enacted.

It is just a matter of time before all of the states enact some type of viscous tax on pipe tobacco. I built the majority of my cellar in 2012-2013. At the time many called me paranoid about a tobacco apocalypse. I countered saying it was just a matter of time before we saw all kinds of taxes, price increases and discontinued blends. My Nostradamus skills have been pretty accurate so far.
 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
8,965
5,118
Without seeing "olkofri's" missive I certainly can't argue with the MP's reply. However, it appeared to be a canned response. Full of irrefutable info and numbers but, "canned" just the same, indicating the MP's mind is not going to be changed by having poor, low level, staff read "olkofri's" letter. She doesn't want to be bothered. So, writing her was indeed a waste of time.

I have an old hockey acquaintance who was an MP from the Yukon Territory. Letters are only important when they support the MP's position. Now, the withholding of campaign donations ... that'll get any politician's attention. The larger the contribution, the greater the attention. And that is why smokers have little impact with a few letters and such, the votes are small in number and I bet the campaign donations are also negligible. Right or wrong, it's the reality with regard to national issues. Politicians buy votes and voters buy politicians. Actually, as wishy-washy as most pols seem to be it's a matter of renting not, buying in this day and age. I remember the days when a politican was bought, he stayed bought!

Impacting local affairs with letters is a definite possibility but, there still need to be enough letters get a politician's attention. The smaller the arena, the easier it is for a small number of voters to impact a politician.

But, I believe it's the same in Canada as the US, the majority of the electorate is opposed to stinky tobacco smokers, pipe smokers do indeed reek, in eateries, bars, parks, etc. And, as the bulk of voters are opposed to tobacco use, taxing the hell out of the products is applauded by many voters. Most people see nothing efficacious about any type of tobacco use. "For the children", medical pros and cons are no longer even part of the discussion. (Canadian MPs apparently still use such in "canned" letters to constituents.) People simply do not like the reek, the smoke and do not esteem smokers, even those few seen on the "silver screen." Non-smokers now have a voice and the smoker doesn't.

There is nothing anyone of us here can write to change society's position. But, injured self-esteem is sometimes healed by a moaning, groaning post. Telling others about injured self-esteem and personal travails can, apparently, be cathartic. So ... carry on!
 

logs

Preferred Member
Apr 28, 2019
1,786
4,817
Anti-smoking is the will of the majority of the electorate. This IS the change.

Exactly so.
I know a lot of people feel unfairly put upon by current legislation but all you have to do is research the history of the US tobacco industry in the last 75 years and realize the degree of lies, dirty tricks, and general monkey business that big tobacco pulled in their efforts to get consumers addicted to their products. Yes, I love pipes and cigars but from a historical perspective, it's hard to feel sorry for the tobacco industry. They brought this upon themselves a hundred times over.
 

brian64

Preferred Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,261
6,323
It will only get worse

Don't give up hope yet. If Orangutans are being granted personhood status, perhaps tobacco users may one day be granted the same. I try to be optimistic.

Orangutan granted ‘personhood’ settles into new Florida home
 

brian64

Preferred Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,261
6,323
But then we wouldn't be able to smoke it: we'd be thrown in jail for cannibalism!

Yet another issue to be optimistic about!

Cannibalism is trending as being a sustainable and environmentally conscious lifestyle choice.

Scientist suggests eating human flesh to fight climate change
 
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