Is this another Dunhill fake?

[kenbarnes]

This un-smoked Patent 'Dunhill' is not stamped correctly. Any feedback would be welcome!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unsmoked-Dunhill-1937-Pipe-must-read-description/112264464015?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40800%26meid%3Dd8c8ec7351524e439b57ddd2b7c87d4e%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D232201416246

 

[kenbarnes]

.... also I am sure that Dunhill never fitted moulded mouthpieces on their pipes, nor did they have such a spot in those days or any days for that matter.

 

[georged]

Not only a minimally-finished molded stem, but an obvious putty fill.
This guy isn't even trying very hard. :lol:

 

[sablebrush52]

Any smooth Dunhill that has a "shell" stamping is a fake. Shell refers to Dunhill's sandblast process.
Seller says that he's checked this pipe against his collection and it's the "real deal".
He's either an idiot who has collected a bunch of fakes, or he's a crook.

 

[cally454]

9 bids. Sheesh

 

[jpmcwjr]

Quite a few fills and a lousy finish, noticeable even in crap photos. Here is one such p.o.s. image.

 

[kenbarnes]

[/quote]Any smooth Dunhill that has a "shell" stamping is a fake. Shell refers to Dunhill's sandblast process

Yes, I did know this, and this is what first aroused my suspicion. I am fascinated as to where they obtain the stamp dies or how they copy them. The guy sure knows how to produce dies but not very knowledgeable about pipes it seems.

I will send a message to inform him/her that it is in fact a fake.

 

[bentbob]

When comparing the fonts used in the stamping to the fonts used on a 1937 Dunhill Shell on the "Pipephil" website they are not the same and there are some obvious differences. The cap height to the letter width is a different ratio. The underscore on "No" is also in a different position. The kerning is also very different - particularly on the word "SHELL". In the Pipehil pics it is almost "SHE L L".
Dunhill may have had several stamps of course, but I would have thought they would use the same company to make the stamps and "house style" would usually dictate the same font would be used for a set of stamps.
I have never bought from this seller and he(?) appears to sell other vintage items as well as pipes, so it may be that he wouldn't know the difference rather than that he is trying to deliberately mislead. One never knows though.

 

[ophiuchus]

The grain, the finish, the stem surface, the button, the LaRocca-like billiard shape ... wow! That's a nice Italian-made basket pipe!

 

[bentbob]

Ken,
Any company that makes foil-blocking or embossing dies could make a stamp that would be suitable for a short run of counterfeit pipes. A small blocking die is now very cheap to make too - under £50

 

[kenbarnes]

Thanks bentbob, I am learning everyday. I know that Charatan, Upshall and other pipe makers used an old family business making dies called Bonzer. Nowadays it is oh so different.

I sent this ebayer a message just now [/quote]Regrettably it is not the 'real deal' but in fact a fake. I have noticed several main issues that indicate this was not made by Dunhill. The mouthpiece is a moulded one/not a hand-cut and the white spot is not authentic etc etc.

Apologies for bursting your bubble - that is if you were not aware of it being a fake.

I wonder if he will reply. I will keep you all informed

 

[ophiuchus]

 

[bentbob]

I'd be interested to find out his response as he based in Sheffield. One or two of the Sheffield Pipe Club chaps occasionally come along to the Nottingham Pipe Club and they may know him.

 

[theloniousmonkfish]

"I am fascinated as to where they obtain the stamp dies or how they copy them. The guy sure knows how to produce dies but not very knowledgeable about pipes it seems."
Here's a quote from this page
"Lane Limited, including the Charatan pipe line, was purchased in 1976 and in the early 1980s the Dunhill pipe factories were consolidated with a number of pipe carvers laid off and much disgruntlement amongst those that remained. But with that consolidation not only a few pipe makers disappeared, so too pipe tools, stamping tools, raw briar, and from the company’s inventory boxes of abandoned work, some unfinished bowls as well."

 

[dmcmtk]

Funny you should ask this Ken, I was just reading the John Loring article the other day THE 1980s FAKE DUNHILL.
http://loringpage.com/pipearticles/80s%20Fakes.htm
Towards the bottom of the page, with an image,

Lastly in terms of nomenclature, although I have not seen the following stamp used on any 1980s fakes thus far, there appears be a Dunhill stamping tool dating to 1937 that reads: DUNHILL SHELL MADE IN ENGLAND [over] PAT. No 41757417 in the hands of some illiterate who has used it to stamp at least 3 different ‘group 4sh’ fake smooth finished pipes. These three fakes belong in the same uninteresting category as the Irish antique shop 20 Euro fake I wrote about above, however, the possibility exists that this stamp was initially stolen from the Dunhill factory in the early 1980’s and perhaps used on some of the 1980s fakes.

 

[davet]

Another quote;

there appears be a Dunhill stamping tool dating to 1937 that reads: DUNHILL SHELL MADE IN ENGLAND [over] PAT. No 41757417 in the hands of some illiterate who has used it to stamp at least 3 different ‘group 4sh’ fake smooth finished pipes.

A pic from the listing;

 

[lightmybriar]

Hi everyone. Funny, I stumbled upon this thread after googling "1937 counterfeit Dunhill" in order to prove to this seller that he is allowing people to bid on a counterfeit pipe. I've been writing him all day long and he will not listen to reason. I just now heard back from him, and he told me he would amend the listing to say that there is a possibility this could be a fake, but that that decision is up to the buyer. He said he is only doing it "for the purpose of fair play" and hopes it will satisfy me. I was very specific in pointing out all of the differences between this pipe and an authentic Dunhill, but he isn't interested. Not cool!

 

[sablebrush52]

I'm not surprised that the seller is reluctant to take in the info he's been getting. Anyone who claims that he's compared a fake to his collection and it's the "real deal" isn't interested in honesty.

 

[beefeater33]

Towards the bottom of the page, with an image,
Lastly in terms of nomenclature, although I have not seen the following stamp used on any 1980s fakes thus far, there appears be a Dunhill stamping tool dating to 1937 that reads: DUNHILL SHELL MADE IN ENGLAND [over] PAT. No 41757417 in the hands of some illiterate who has used it to stamp at least 3 different ‘group 4sh’ fake smooth finished pipes. These three fakes belong in the same uninteresting category as the Irish antique shop 20 Euro fake I wrote about above, however, the possibility exists that this stamp was initially stolen from the Dunhill factory in the early 1980’s and perhaps used on some of the 1980s fakes.

Great work Dave!

So........... if this is one of three fakes it may be more rare than an actual 1937 Dunhill......... 8O

 

[kenbarnes]

This guy replied to my email drawing my attention to the disclaimer he has at the bottom of his listing that reads

[/quote] Due to a small amount of enquiry as to the pipes authenticity I feel compelled to add this disclaimer. What I have offered so far is my opinion. I urge everyone interested in the item to make there own judgement. I am not all knowing and accept I could be wrong but I simply state what I believe to be true based on a strong knowledge of the subject.