Is it OK to Never Remove the Stem ?

[Briarcutter]

Really? You've seen this kind of damage form a 30 second flush? And you're positive that the flush caused the damage? Got any examples to share? I'm finding your statement difficult to credit since my own personal experience of performing this operation hundreds of times over the past several years has yielded no problems.

Maybe I'm extraordinarily lucky, as are many others who use this technique and have extolled the results, or you are alarmingly unlucky to have so many issues with it.

Can moisture warp wood? Is a 400 LB robin fat? Does that mean that a 30 second to 1 minute flush with warm water will do the same? You seem to be conflating things, which is a poplar trick for trying to win arguments.
I'm not a pipe carver, but I've built cabinets, bookcases, tables, beds, and the like, so I'm familiar with the concept of moisture affecting wood.

I got my start in my film career by rebuilding a 19th century piano action for a production designer who had been told that her great grandmother's Pleyel piano couldn't be restored. I carved every piece of that action by hand and when I was done that action worked perfectly. And pulling together the components of a piano action so that it responds correctly to a pianist's touch is one hell of a lot more complicated than carving a pipe. Using well seasoned wood is key since you want dimensional stability. But even with that, wood will respond to climate, and how.

As for why some of us are defensive on the matter is probably because people here really lost their bowels over thought of it and attacked us like we were baby killers. It's one thing if you have a body of evidence to support a conclusion rather than stating an unsubstantiated opinion.

My body of evidence is using a warm water flush on my pipes, for years, with no adverse effects. The naysayers are welcome to their conclusions, just leave us alone.

I guess opinion and views that don't go a!ong with the some aren't welcome. I don't think I've attacked anyone, Just posting my views. Evidence? You should know as most do, water and dry wood don't mix. Try hosing off that 19th century piano action for thirty seconds and see the results. I've held cracked pipes in my hands right after water treatments. Your opinion is, a water flush is fine for pipes, mine is, I'd never do it or recommend it. If someone wants to flush their pipes, flush away. I'm not trying to win any arguement, I didnt this was one, just posting my opinion.

 

[sablebrush52]

I guess opinion and views that don't go a!ong with the some aren't welcome. I don't think I've attacked anyone, Just posting my views. Evidence? You should know as most do, water and dry wood don't mix. Try hosing off that 19th century piano action For thirty seconds and see the results. I've held cracked pipes in my hands right after water treatments. Your opinion is, a water flush is fine for pipes, mine is, I'd never do it or recommend it. If someone wants to flush their pipes, flush away. I'm not trying to win any arguement, I didnt this was one, just posting my opinion.

Why would I hose down a piano action.

And yet, hundreds of water flushes with no ill effects. To me that's empirical data, not an opinion. Even though it's unfashionable, I still prefer data to opinion, which as we know everyone has.

Water and wood don't mix is an oversimplification. Water and wood mix when one is bending or shaping wood. Water and wood mix every time one smokes a pipe.

I wish you had images of those cracked pipes. Might have had nothing to do with the water and everything to do with a pre-existing weakness.

And as I posted earlier, we had a member here who, for science as we like to say here, left one of his pipes immersed in water for a week, which did remove the stain, and after allowing it to dry out put the stem back on, which fit perfectly and smoked it.

I don't inundate my pipes when I water flush, any more than I would drop them in a bottle of alcohol. I give them a clean out with pipe cleaners after removing the stem, set a slow stream of warm water that fills to the rim without overflow, and let it trickle out the end of the shank for about a minute, then clean out the residue and loosened oils and dry it. Works every time. Briar being different from piece to piece, some pipes do need a little more time before I reassemble them and others are ready to go within a few minutes of drying.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I give them a clean out with pipe cleaners after removing the stem, set a slow stream of warm water that fills to the rim without overflow, and let it trickle out the end of the shank for about a minute, then clean out the residue and loosened oils and dry it. Works every time. Briar being different from piece to piece, some pipes do need a little more time before I reassemble them and others are ready to go within a few minutes of drying.

I can say that I appreciate that clarification of your method, as I was envisioning a heftier bath when you were referring to “flushes.”

I’ve got respect for all the opinions being expressed, but would stop short of calling your hundreds of flushes empirical. For example:
I’ve worked on and around hundreds of internal combustion engines (auto, motorcycle, heavy equipment, etc) and when the topics of oil composition, brand, additives, change frequency, etc comes up I often am known to offer my input-that is that the only oil related failures I’ve seen are instances of not enough or not circulating. That is my honest experience over the course of years, but far from an “empirical” truth. I’m absolutely certain that if challenged or so Inclined many I’ve had the discussion with could have brought out main bearing failures due to excessive wear caused by any of the first mentioned variables of oil condition and quality. Most know I’m an end user not a topic expert, and don’t take it as a personal challenge or an affront to their cause to champion.

@Briarcutter has a body of work that should lend some credibility to his opinion as well, and never posited his viewpoint in a hyperbolic “end all, be all” canon for all to heed.

I find it an interesting topic and will vote my siding by treating my pipes as I see fit, knowing I’m a grown ass man and will bear the consequences of my actions upon my property accordingly.

I hope that anyone that takes what they heard online as gospel and follows it, only to blame the source as solely responsible is tough, because that’s dumb and if you’re gonna be dumb you better be tough.

Weren’t we talking about the request for members’ opinions on practice of stem disassembly?

Cheers!

(Sorry for a bunch of edits, I’m still figuring out this damned new phone’s auto correct and suggestive text settings)

 

[AJL67]

Did a quick search and these same arguments have been going on here since at the very least 2020 and no one has died from flushing or not flushing their pipes with hot water.

Another search on the web and I have yet to find anyone say their pipe was ruined by a hot water flush yet an overwhelming majority of people said their pipes smoked better after the flush, and that includes searching on "my tobacco pipe was ruined by a hot water flush" which yielded zero results. There was even a guy on youtube that dropped his pipe in boiling water and reported no damage.

There is even GL Pease talking about putting his pipe in a 180 degree oven then filling it with activated charcoal pellets and putting it back in the oven to get rid of ghosting.

I have no dog in this fight as i smoke mainly Meer pipes and i'll be damned if I'm soaking one of those in boiling water, unless i feel like re-carving it i guess lol

 

[georged]

I think it should be clear by now that there's no categorically correct answer to the water & briar "thing".

Both sides of the issue have world class advocates: Jesse the uber collector says yes, and Larry Roush (I'm reasonably sure it's him, anyway) the uber carver says no.

Net takeaway? When unimpeachable experts can't agree, they're both right.

Put another way, water rinsing a pipe might work fine for one but not another.

What is the variable? Geographic origin of the wood? Its age? How it was processed/treated? How it's finished?

No one is ever likely to know. There are too many variables.

Bottom line? Test drive the idea if it appeals to you, and proceed accordingly.

 

[didimauw]

I think it should be clear by now that there's no categorically correct answer to the water & briar "thing".

Both sides of the issue have world class advocates: Jesse the uber collector says yes, and Larry Roush (I'm reasonably sure it's him, anyway) the uber carver says no.

Net takeaway? When unimpeachable experts can't agree, they're both right.

Put another way, water rinsing a pipe might work fine for one but not another.

What is the variable? Geographic origin of the wood? Its age? How it was processed/treated? How it's finished?

No one is ever likely to know. There are too many variables.

Bottom line? Test drive the idea if it appeals to you, and proceed accordingly.

A simple yes or no would have sufficed.....sheesh

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Arguments have been made against water flushing for years now, with no one producing a pipe ruined by water. At this point the anti-flushers are just wrong. I’ve been washing mine with water for years, and I have some really nice pipes, from Paulo Beckers, to Dunhills, to Ferndowns. Spigots, blasts, straight grains… I can’t even imagine what the hell could be wrong with water in a pipe. Ashdigger even did an experiment weighing a pipe before and after soaking it for a long time. Briar does not soak up water. Period.
Prove otherwise, or shut the argument. If you chose not to rinse your pipes, fine. No one is arguing that you should.

Hell, my whole pipe club started doing it back years ago as well. And, there were 86 members.

Why would anyone care how someone else washes their pipes? It’s busy silly. Do what you want to do, and stop all of the fretful handwringing over someone else’s pipe maintenance. We’re adults, right? What is wrong with you people?

 

[Sobrbiker]

Why would anyone care how someone else washes their pipes? It’s busy silly. Do what you want to do, and stop all of the fretful handwringing over someone else’s pipe maintenance.

And yet, here you’re posting to bolster your angle, again.

With all due respect, you seem the most committed in this thread to being right.
Just an observation

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Oh look, I’m destroying a $1200 Paulo Becker with water.


I’ve been washing this out with water for five years.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

And yet, here you’re posting to bolster your angle, again.

With all due respect, you seem the most committed in this thread to being right.
Just an observation

I’m committed to my process not destroying a pipe. It’s like talking to someone who has a phobia. I may not be able to fix ya, but I can show you that I will be fine, despite whatever unfounded fears you may have.

This is silly. Many guys wash their pipes with water. I don’t even comprehend your fears, nor why you want to inflict them on everyone else.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I don't care how anyone cleans his pipe—or not!— but will counter when unsupported claims are made.

Since I first posted about this method some 6 or 7 years ago, tens of thousands of pipes have been cleaned this way, a couple of thousand cleanings by me alone.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Posts that are very argumentative will be deleted. Try to keep with facts, be it about keeping the stem in, or flushing the pipe with hot or warm water.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I didn’t mean to use you or your in my response. I meant to just refer to the overall reactions, not anyone in specific. I apologize if it comes across as pinpointing anyone in specific. I’m sorry for any confusion or insinuated insult.

 

[sablebrush52]

I’ve got respect for all the opinions being expressed, but would stop short of calling your hundreds of flushes empirical.

The Oxford Dictionary would disagree with you, but what do they know?

adjective
adjective: empirical

1. based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.
   "they provided considerable empirical evidence to support their argument"

 

[Sobrbiker]

The Oxford Dictionary would disagree with you, but what do they know?

adjective
adjective: empirical

1. based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.
   "they provided considerable empirical evidence to support their argument"

You might be right….
Cheers

 

[AJL67]

I keep picturing a guy running down to a dock yelling "Chris! Chris Columbus!!!! Don't put your boats in the water!!!!"

giggle snort

 

[Haggard]

I’ve got all you water flushers BEAT!

I use warm water, a synthetic bristle shank brush and SOAP. More suds the better. Water splashed everywhere! Soap everywhere.

I assure you, it’s no joke. I wash my pipes like I wash my dishes; thoroughly.

A little mineral oil at the end, and they’re good to go.

Pipes I regularly wash with this method:

Tom Eltang - various grades and ornaments
Werner Mummert - ditto, and even more funky
Dunhill
Scottie Piersel - almost redundant with the inner tube, but why not?
Mario Grandi
Altinay Meerschaum
I Baglan figural meerschaum
Sara Eltang
Some no-name great smokers
Brigham

And probably a few more. Not one problem, ever, with all kinds of different accents and shank materials.

Clearly, if water (or soap) was a problem, it would have shown up by now.

The hysteria is only promoted by people who don’t use water to clean a pipe. Let alone soap… really, you should also use soap. Never had a fresher pipe. It’s designed to remove oils!

If you scour these threads, I think you’re going to have one hell of a time finding someone who used water and ruined a pipe. Why is that?

This is silly. Find a cheap pipe, try it out. Don’t bother to post about the result… that’s fine. But really, do yourself a favor and try it. You’ll be glad (even if in secret) that you did.

Soap! No bullshit. It’s like trying to convince surgeons of old to wash their hands to prevent germs…. Yes, it does in fact work!

 

[captainFrank]

Briar does not soak up water. Period. Prove otherwise, or shut the argument.

Since "jpmcwjr" said to stick with the facts ...

Pipe Care Tips

What is Briar? Why is it used for making tobacco pipes? Briar is so widely accepted as the finest wood for making tobacco pipes because of its properties. It is actually a root wood that grows in burls (large balls of wood) underground. Briar is designed by nature to absorb moisture and...

www.macqueenpipes.com

"Briar is designed by nature to absorb moisture and nutrients from the earth. It continues its job of absorbing moisture once it is made into a pipe."

How To Build A Pipe Rotation - Smokingpipes.com

To keep your pipes smoking sweet, it's important to have a pipe rotation. Learn more about how to build your own pipe rotation today.

www.smokingpipes.com

"The inspiration behind pipe rotation is the fact that briar is an organic material that absorbs moisture from tobacco when smoked. While this feature is a benefit, allowing for dryer smokes and an impartation of the briar's natural flavor, it does necessitate rest in the same way that any absorbent material requires time to dry and return to its original state."

Why Briar and Not Something Else? - PIPES and CIGARS

Learn about how Briar Pipes are made, why briar is considered the best wood for tobacco pipes, and much more here at PIPES and CIGARS!

www.pipesandcigars.com

"Boiling- the blocks are boiled in water or steeped in very hot water for a period of time to help get the bulk of the sap out of the wood. Drying- the blocks can be air-dried (which takes a number of years) or they can be kiln-dried (which can be done in a matter of months or even weeks). Obviously, kiln-drying gets the wood ready much more quickly, but the blocks can crack due to the faster shrinkage that heat-assisted desiccation can cause."

I am under no obligation whatsoever to prove anything to anybody. But between your word, and what the above sources have stated on the matter of water absorption, personally I'll trust the later, sorry, no offense.

Now whether the amount of water intake during a flush or thorough washing actually matters or not ... I don't know and for the time being I'm not even interested to find out. I might try the flush in the future, I might not, it's my choice. But no amount of selling pitches such as "you'd be glad that you did/you don't know what you are missing/do yourself a favor/you have a phobia/ etc." will persuade me personally.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

"Briar is designed by nature to absorb moisture and nutrients from the earth. It continues its job of absorbing moisture once it is made into a pipe."

First MacQueen is a pipemaker that works in woods other than briar.
Many items made of wood spend their entire life in water. I have a wood canoe. Many woods are naturally water proof, many are not. Briar just happens to be. Cedar is also.
Did you miss the part about Ashdigger trying his danmdest to get briar to absorb water? He was not a wood rincer and convinced himself that he was wrong with his experiment.

I hate to break this to you, but using excuses why men buy extra pipes is not very scientific. Ha ha.

How do you explain thousands of men using water in their pipes with no negative consequences? Are we all just more blessed by God than You?

I'm afraid you poorly contrived arguments are not winning me over. You'll have to do way better than that to convince someone who drenches his pipes in water, sometimes soaking them, that what he is doing is wrong, especially after years and years of doing it.

It's actually sort of idiotic to try. And, no, I did not call you an idiot. I merely said your endeavor is.
You've actuially just been on this forum for 12 posts, and just after hitting a dozen you want to come at me with these half wit links ( I said the links were halfwit) to support your poorly contrived argument. Why not go and worry about what other people are doing in their bedrooms, or what religions other people practice, or go about telling people what they should think or do, and leave the water rincers alone. Ha ha.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

no amount of selling pitches such as "you'd be glad that you did/you don't know what you are missing/do yourself a favor/you have a phobia/ etc." will persuade me personally.

I am not trying to persuade you. You are trying poorly to persuade me. I could care less what you do with your pipes. How about, PLEASE DONT RINCE YOUR PIPES... that is my thing. I could care less if you decided to just toss your pipes in the garbage after smoking them. I would be totally ok with that.