Is a Light, Soft, Fluffy Pipe Smoke That Doubles as a Cigarette Blend Better?

[rakovsky]

@rakovsky, if you want to rawdog some Hertzogvenia Rustica, we'll give you 30 thumbs up on the WAYS thread. If you want a soft, fluffy cloud to smoke, I love BCA or other black cavendish. I don't inhale it, so I can't tell you what that experience is like.

I like how you called it "Hertzogvenia Rustica".

"Herzogvena Flor" filterless cigarettes just used VA-Oriental Leaf.
White Sea Canals / "Belomorkanal" in the blue pack I posted earlier use N. Rustica and have a lot of nicotine.

Thanks for mentioning the softness of BCA. I had a B&M's house blend called "Toasted Cavendish" that was a toasted black cavendish that I thought smelled amazing. It reminded me of CRB Moon except that CRB Moon uses a cherry flavor. Toasted Cavendish and BCA are definitely aromatic cavendishes and probably have enough topping that their smoke wouldn't be light for inhalation as cigarettes. Aromatics with a lot of topping seems to be more of a pipe genre. I can't think of many cigarettes like that.

I also don't quite follow you on the "thicker" comment. Are you talking about the cut? I think if I rolled a cigarette out of my pipe tobacco stash, I'd roll up some GLP Penny Farthing, just to try it.

In trying to distinguish cigarette tobacco from pipe tobacco, two features come to mind: the size of the cut of the leaf and the thickness/denseness of the smoke itself. For cigarettes, smokers prefer a thin, shag cut. And since they inhale the smoke, lighter smoke works better than smoke that is thick/dense, with a goopy topped perique being an extreme example.

So for instance American Spirit RYO and Prince Albert double as cigarette tobacco and pipe tobacco, and have been sold as both. American Spirit RYO uses shag cut, and its smoke is not super thick or dense compared to a lot of non-OTC pipe blends. Prince Albert uses "crimp cut" and I found it to be lighter than Standard Mixture.

Are Capstan, Standard Mixture, and OGS only sold as pipe tobacco, or can they also work as in a RYO cogarette? The first challenge is that you would want to give them a thinner cut, like slicing them into shag cut. The second challenge is that their smoke could be quite thick/dense, so that inhaling them from cigarettes might be hard.

 

[rakovsky]

You pretty much answered your own question. You want a tobacco that you can smoke in your pipe while inhaling it.
Basically, any RYO would fit the bill, so it’s a matter of trying different RYO tobaccos and smoking the ones you most enjoy.
The majority of pipe blends aren’t suitable for inhaling.
You might also check out Turkish cigarettes if such are still available. Decades ago I used to enjoy Sobranie cigarettes, but those have been long gone.

Sable brush,
What makes most pipe blends unsuitable for inhaling? Is it that their casing, topping, or the thickness of their cut makes their smoke too dense/thick to inhale nicely?
I agree that RYO would fit the bill, and that Turkish blends like Sobranie would be a good choice.
In my OP, I want to ask whether the kind of nice soft fluffy tobacco that you can smoke nicely in a cigarette would be better to smoke in your pipe than regular pipe tobacco that you cannot easily smoke in a cigarette.
In other words, why wouldn't great fluffy soft light cigarette tobacco be comparably great to smoke in a pipe without inhaling it?

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

just recently, I had a conversation with an elderly Brit, who had smoked all during his adult life , mostly Condor and Brunos, that said, back in the days,in the 60-70ies the majority of his coworkers who smoked them pipes , each of them did inhaling the smoke , who less and who more ,,

 

[Wisps77]

I inhale a couple times during the first third of the bowl. I does not add anything to the flavor for me. If anything it dulls it a little. But being a former cigarettes smoker I still have the tendency to inhale. That includes all blends of pipe tobacco. For sure a lot less with the stiffer blends.

 

[rakovsky]

I inhale a couple times during the first third of the bowl. I does not add anything to the flavor for me. If anything it dulls it a little. But being a former cigarettes smoker I still have the tendency to inhale.

Occasionally I've been tempted to inhale through the pipe, but avoided it for health risks.
I pipe-inhaled on Cherokee RYO because I wanted to test if it was harsh on the lungs like people say. And Yes, it was harsh.

 

[condorlover1]

@warren: The trick with Belomorkanal is to crush the bottom third of the tube in your fingers and then do it again with the end that goes into your mouth and it forms a perfect mouthpiece and a baffle for the smoke. It was my preferred blend and I used to love ripping the lid of a packet. I put a pack in a box pass on here in 2015/16 for people to try as I still had contacts in Moscow that would send them to me for old times sake. Nothing better than a 750 ml bottle of Moskovskaya, black bread, salt and some dried sausage and a pack of Belomorkanal!

 

[warren]

What makes most pipe blends unsuitable for inhaling? Is it that their casing, topping, or the thickness of their cut makes their smoke too dense/thick to inhale nicely?

I'll freely provice my answer, Sable should be along soon.

Two words, personal tolerance.

The trick with Belomorkanal is to crush the bottom third of the tube in your fingers and then do it again with the end that goes into your mouth and it forms a perfect mouthpiece and a baffle for the smoke.

Yes, pinching the second time in the opposite direction as the first. My Russian partners mentored me in my first few cigarettes. My first move after shaking out a cigarette is to tap it, hard, mouthpiece down to free up the loose tobacco. I loved those things when I was working there, didn't need to take a carton or two of Camrls with me from Alaska.

 

[rakovsky]

@warren: The trick with Belomorkanal is to crush the bottom third of the tube in your fingers and then do it again with the end that goes into your mouth and it forms a perfect mouthpiece and a baffle for the smoke. It was my preferred blend and I used to love ripping the lid of a packet. I put a pack in a box pass on here in 2015/16 for people to try as I still had contacts in Moscow that would send them to me for old times sake. Nothing better than a 750 ml bottle of Moskovskaya, black bread, salt and some dried sausage and a pack of Belomorkanal!

Right, I folded them that way, and got a pack out of curiosity because they are so famous.
On the Speakeasy.club forum, a friend was very eager when I said that I had some - he thought I meant that I got a couple packs newly arrived. But in fact I just had part of a pack left over from years ago as a souvenir. I gave him 2 and he was pretty happy about that.

There is a niche interest for them in the US out of curiosity plus some people prefer their higher nic. load. An article on a Ukrainian site called Garden claims that the tobacco commonly used in Western cigarettes doesn't have enough nicotine:

Табак СССР: группы, типы и подтипы

Применяемый для производства табачных изделий табак делился в СССР середины 1950-х годов на группы, типы (ботанические сорта) и подтипы (по месту произрастания). I группа. Желтые восточные табаки использовались при изготовлении папирос, сигарет, кури...

ogorod.ua

But I think that how much nicotine a cigarette should have depends on one's preference.

 

[sardonicus87]

Sable brush,
What makes most pipe blends unsuitable for inhaling? Is it that their casing, topping, or the thickness of their cut makes their smoke too dense/thick to inhale nicely?
I agree that RYO would fit the bill, and that Turkish blends like Sobranie would be a good choice.
In my OP, I want to ask whether the kind of nice soft fluffy tobacco that you can smoke nicely in a cigarette would be better to smoke in your pipe than regular pipe tobacco that you cannot easily smoke in a cigarette.
In other words, why wouldn't great fluffy soft light cigarette tobacco be comparably great to smoke in a pipe without inhaling it?

Pipe tobacco contains a lot more nicotine. One average cigarette is a gram of tobacco. Cigarette tobacco usually is 10-14 mg of nicotine per cigarette (and therefore per gram, on average)... pipe tobacco on average is 30-50 mg of nicotine per gram.

There's a lot more to it than just that though.

 

[woodsroad]

I don’t inhale directly, but certainly sniff the exhale on almost every puff. It’s been very windy here in southeastern Pennsyltucky for the past weeks, but I was able to catch a brief respite this afternoon with a bowl of PS80, a blend (that was, may still be) available in both pipe and RYO cut.

 

[rakovsky]

Pipe tobacco contains a lot more nicotine. One average cigarette is a gram of tobacco. Cigarette tobacco usually is 10-14 mg of nicotine per cigarette (and therefore per gram, on average)... pipe tobacco on average is 30-50 mg of nicotine per gram.

There's a lot more to it than just that though.

The Morshansk factory continued making Herzegovina Flor papirosy in the 1990's in a yellow box. An article about the Morshansk factory's product says:

The cigarettes have a medium-density filling. TTX: 12 mg of tar, 0.9 mg of nicotine, which is normal for cigarettes, not incredibly strong, but you can't call them light either.

https://dzen.ru/a/W77v2rAjxACqZFRF

Another article gave a slightly different figure:

Nowadays, cigarettes are produced by OJSC Morshansk Tobacco Factory (product name: elite cigarettes "Herzegovina-Flor").

Today, these cigarettes are produced in a single version. They are distinguished by a rich aroma and high strength.
Tar content - 12 mg.
Nicotine content - 0.8 mg.

Ответы Mail: А сейчас есть Герцеговина Флор? В смысле папиросы или табак? Он чей вообще был?

Пользователь Fox Mulder. задал вопрос в категории Общество и получил на него 11 ответов

otvet.mail.ru

Another description shows a photo of the old Soviet packet, a green box, and says:

Strength: 1.5-2 mg. nicotine, 27-32 mg. tar

Герцеговина флор — Девичья курилка

Герцеговина флор

smokingirl.org

 

[sardonicus87]

The Morshansk factory continued making Herzegovina Flor papirosy in the 1990's in a yellow box. An article about the Morshansk factory's product says:



Another article gave a slightly different figure:

Another description shows a photo of the old Soviet packet, a green box, and says:

Герцеговина флор — Девичья курилка

Герцеговина флор

smokingirl.org

... and?

Cigarette tobacco, on average, is still 10-14 mg of nicotine per gram and pipe tobacco is still on average 30-50 mg of nicotine per gram.

I thought we were talking about cigarette vs pipe tobacco, who cares what one specific cigarette company says of their specific cigarettes? That's irrelevant to the point of "why not inhale pipe tobacco" or inhalation of pipe vs cigarette tobacco...

 

[rakovsky]

And?

I am guessing that the nic amount quoted in the articles for the papirosy, i.e. from .8 to 2 mg, is a lot less than the 10 mg that you mentioned because a papirosa doesn't have the amount of leaf in it that a cigarette does.

 

[sardonicus87]

I am guessing that the nic amount quoted in the articles for the papirosy, i.e. from .8 to 2 mg, is a lot less than the 10 mg that you mentioned because a papirosa doesn't have the amount of leaf in it that a cigarette does.

 

[ThermionicScott]

Back in the day, Philip Morris advertised a few pipe tobaccos as being mild enough to inhale. I never had the PM version of Revelation, but tried it once or twice with the House of Windsor version, as well as with C&D Epiphany. My wimpy lungs didn’t enjoy it, so my experiments didn’t go any further. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[rakovsky]

Cigarette tobacco, on average, is still 10-14 mg of nicotine per gram and pipe tobacco is still on average 30-50 mg of nicotine per gram.

I thought we were talking about cigarette vs pipe tobacco, who cares what one specific cigarette company says of their specific cigarettes? That's irrelevant to the point of "why not inhale pipe tobacco" or inhalation of pipe vs cigarette tobacco...

Sardonic,
The reason that I originally wondered about pipe-smoking cigarette tobacco was because I read about pipe-smoking Herzegovina Flor filterless cigarette (papirosy) tobacco. In the OP, I wrote a bit about the brand, and wondered why someone would do that. I wondered what it would be like - better or worse than smoking normal pipe tobacco.

 

[camaguey]

In more than 50 years of smoking (pipes,cigarettes and cigars) , i never found a cigarette baccy suitable for a pipe and never a pipe tobacco suitable for a cigarette. I think that they are what they are by design.

 

[rakovsky]

In more than 50 years of smoking (pipes,cigarettes and cigars) , i never found a cigarette baccy suitable for a pipe and never a pipe tobacco suitable for a cigarette. I think that they are what they are by design.

That makes sense.
May I please ask what it was that didn't work when you tried to smoke the cigarette tobacco in a pipe? Was it too light?
PA is supposed to double as both. I found it alittle light when I smoked it in a pipe and didn't try it in RYO.

 

[BingBong]

Smoking RYO in a pipe doesn't work for my wallet, above all else here in the UK. It costs twice as much as pipe tobacco.

I would much prefer to run Ashton's Gold Rush through a blender and smoke it RYO - I've tried it as-is and the flavour beats anything sold as RYO by a mile, cut a bit finer and it would win hands down.

Cigarette tobaccos just aren't that great, beyond getting a nicotine hit. My outright favorite used to be Van Nelle Zware, but even that hasn't the punch it used to have - in the olden days, it was a serious hit - and the taste isn't what it was.

There is an advocate of Rouseco Buoy Gold here, surprised we haven't heard from him

 

[Sig]

I hope you're not inhaling pipe tobacco at all.

If you're going to inhale tobacco, VA and Burley pipe tobacco is "better" than cigarette tobacco.
Cigarette manufacturers add a bunch of chemicals such as Nicotene Delivery System chemicals, which make the nicotine hit your brain quicker, and leave your brain quicker. The effects of nicotine from a cigarette leaves your brain in about 20 minutes. While nicotence from pipe and cigar smoke stays for 1-2 hours. This is why cigarette smokers tend to "need" a smoke more often than pipers or cigar smokers.
The NDS chemicals contain things like arsenic and formaldehyde.
Cigarette tobacco also contains chemicals, beyond a light casing, to meld the flavors and smooth the inhale feel. Among many other chemicals.
MOST pipe tobaccos do not add these chemicals.
That said, inhaling any smoke into your lungs isn't good. It's not just chemicals that damage your lungs. It's also the "thickness" of smoke rather than just air.