Is 0% Oxidation Possible?

[sablebrush52]

How do you know it is actually oxidation? I’m not a chemist or materials scientist, but I’d love it if one chimed in here.

I do know that modern rubber compounds are much better than old ones. Rubber making was often a seat-of-the-pants operation, and that sometimes resulted in less-than perfect formulations.

My solution is to not worry about gray/green stems, and to simply re-dye them if they look cruddy.

That's a valid question, because the accretion from one's mouth that builds up is NOT Vulcanite oxidation.You can burn off the mouth crud, but that's different than removing oxidized Vulcanite,which has undergone a chemical change from exposure to light and Oxygen.

Don't confuse the two. They're not the same thing. Actual oxidation of the Vulcanite, which also results in the sulfur content coming to the surface and turning the stem brown, or yellow in extreme cases, needs to be physically removed. Oxidation can be avoided by keeping the Vulcanite away from light and oxygen for any extended period of time, and protecting the surface with contact from Oxygen, as exampled in this 113 year old cased unsmoked set:

 

[milk]

The churchwarden cleaners are real handy for it. Tie one end to a faucet and run the stem up and down the cleaner to clean it out.

Should my goal be perfection? I guess so or it will encroach.

 

[woodsroad]

That's a valid question, because the accretion from one's mouth that builds up is NOT Vulcanite oxidation.You can burn off the mouth crud, but that's different than removing oxidized Vulcanite,which has undergone a chemical change from exposure to light and Oxygen.

Don't confuse the two. They're not the same thing. Actual oxidation of the Vulcanite, which also results in the sulfur content coming to the surface and turning the stem brown, or yellow in extreme cases, needs to be physically removed. Oxidation can be avoided by keeping the Vulcanite away from light and oxygen for any extended period of time, and protecting the surface with contact from Oxygen, as exampled in this 113 year old cased unsmoked set:

How do you know that the damage you see in old vulcanite (rubber) is oxidation, and not just from UV? I’m not saying that there isn’t oxidation occuring, just asking that if it is, what’s the reaction? When people make a claim, but don’t understand and can’t explain it, I get itchy.

Stunning Barling set, BTW.

 

[Pipeh]

One of my first pipes I bought off eBay had a very oxidized stem. The color was that yellowy brown with a greenish tinge known as baby doo doo brown.

I had decent results from soaking it in a solution of bleach and water, and then polishing with a super fine emery board

 

[milk]

One of my first pipes I bought off eBay had a very oxidized stem. The color was that yellowy brown with a greenish tinge known as baby doo doo brown.

I had decent results from soaking it in a solution of bleach and water, and then polishing with a super fine emery board

My problem has been that after it looks good I find later on that I’ve missed spots or that there’s oxidation inside. I’ve been driving myself crazy with pipes I’ve been working on over and over again, making me wonder if my whole endeavor with estates has been ill-judged. I realize that people who know what they’re doing don’t have this problem and it’s just learning. But it is frustrating because I’m finding myself spending many hours not on cleaning the first time, but on going back looking for hidden bits or trying to get a tiny spot or inside spot fixed. I always wondered about that label on smokingpipes: “slightly oxidized.” I thought, didn’t they get rid of it all in restoration? Or can’t they? Or do they mean buyer beware? It was here so it may return? There may be more?

 

[woodsroad]

My problem has been that after it looks good I find later on that I’ve missed spots or that there’s oxidation inside. I’ve been driving myself crazy with pipes I’ve been working on over and over again, making me wonder if my whole endeavor with estates has been ill-judged. I realize that people who know what they’re doing don’t have this problem and it’s just learning. But it is frustrating because I’m finding myself spending many hours not on cleaning the first time, but on going back looking for hidden bits or trying to get a tiny spot or inside spot fixed. I always wondered about that label on smokingpipes: “slightly oxidized.” I thought, didn’t they get rid of it all in restoration? Or can’t they? Or do they mean buyer beware? It was here so it may return? There may be more?

Dude, this is supposed to be a leisurely, enjoyable hobby, you know?

 

[milk]

Dude, this is supposed to be a leisurely, enjoyable hobby, you know?

I have an obsessive mind. But I’m lazy too.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Should my goal be perfection? I guess so or it will encroach.

Not at all. Only go as far as what personally satisfies.

 

[mso489]

I'm always amazed at chasingembers' results. Maybe he sits in a pyramid while he burns off the oxidation; it seems magic.

My smart-assed answer is acrylic, but since I tolerate acrylic well, that is a remedy, though I like my Vulcanite stems and buy them when I can.

 

[sablebrush52]

How do you know that the damage you see in old vulcanite (rubber) is oxidation, and not just from UV? I’m not saying that there isn’t oxidation occuring, just asking that if it is, what’s the reaction? When people make a claim, but don’t understand and can’t explain it, I get itchy.

Stunning Barling set, BTW.

From the Wikipedia article on Ebonite:​

​

Ultraviolet and daylight exposure​

Under the influence of the ultraviolet portion of daylight, hard rubber oxidizes. Subsequent exposure to moisture bonds water with free sulfur on the surface, creating sulfates and sulfuric acid at the surface that are very hygroscopic. The sulfates condense water from the air, forming a hydrophilic film with favorable wettability characteristics on the surface.[6] These aging processes will gradually discolor the surface grayish green to brown and cause rapid deterioration of electric surface resistivity.

Ebonite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the simplest explanation I've found. Otherwise, there are more detailed explanations but they come to the same conclusion. Vulcanite is hard rubber, and this kind of oxidation is a quality of hard rubber. Not all Vulcanite is created equal, so the propensity for discoloring can be related to the percentage of sulfur in the mix, which varies according to the intended use.

If you want something more technical:

Experiments on the Causes of the Deterioration of Ebonite when Exposed to Light and Air

Abstract. (1) The surface film of a sample of ebonite—containing no “free” sulfur—has been shown to develop distinct traces of sulfurous and sulfuric acid after exposure to light in a moist atmosphere for a period of four weeks. (2) The above acids appear to result from the oxidation of hydrogen...

meridian.allenpress.com

 

[woodsroad]

Fantastic.
Thank you, Jesse!

 

[milk]

That's a valid question, because the accretion from one's mouth that builds up is NOT Vulcanite oxidation.You can burn off the mouth crud, but that's different than removing oxidized Vulcanite,which has undergone a chemical change from exposure to light and Oxygen.

Don't confuse the two. They're not the same thing. Actual oxidation of the Vulcanite, which also results in the sulfur content coming to the surface and turning the stem brown, or yellow in extreme cases, needs to be physically removed. Oxidation can be avoided by keeping the Vulcanite away from light and oxygen for any extended period of time, and protecting the surface with contact from Oxygen, as exampled in this 113 year old cased unsmoked set:

So beautiful.

Not at all. Only go as far as what personally satisfies.

Accepting that some will remain doesn’t mean the death of the stem? I’d like to let it go a bit. I got it in to my head that it was like black mold or something. I KNOW some of my estates have it on the inside of the mouthpiece. I was just looking carefully today. I’ll try to banish it a bit but, yeah, I don’t want to do my head in.

 

[Chasing Embers]

So beautiful.

Accepting that some will remain doesn’t mean the death of the stem? I’d like to let it go a bit. I got it in to my head that it was like black mold or something. I KNOW some of my estates have it on the inside of the mouthpiece. I was just looking carefully today. I’ll try to banish it a bit but, yeah, I don’t want to do my head in.

It's not hazardous to your health but over time it will spread. Just limit UV exposure and the process will slow.

 

[captpat]

Oxidation will not stop, the best you can do is slow it down quite a bit. Those slow-down measures seem contrary to why one would have a pipe in the first place, store it away from the light, don't smoke it, etc. Ebonite will always require maintenance to keep looking good, it's up to you how much time is invested, or how perfect you want it to look. There's no secret sauce to eliminate it.

 

[MattRVA]

I have an obsessive mind. But I’m lazy too.

Me and you both!

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

0% is possible, just don't smoke it, keep in a drawer away from light, don't get it out, and don't handle it. Otherwise, it is what it is.

These are over 100 years old, they're unsmoked and will stay that way.

 

[milk]

0% is possible, just don't smoke it, keep in a drawer away from light, don't get it out, and don't handle it. Otherwise, it is what it is.

These are over 100 years old, they're unsmoked and will stay that way. View attachment 219792

Those are lovely. I don’t know if I could resist. The world keeps spinning. Will the people that replace us appreciate them any more? But I guess you have beautiful ones you already smoke, and it’s worth it to have these pristine ones to admire in pristine condition. Darn this infernal hobby! I just got that prewar Kaywoodie I’ve really wanted but it’s not enough. I want an earlier pipe with a band like these. I happen to like pipes with vulcanite stems because I want to drive myself crazy. I want more of them. Older, more beautiful ones, that require more effort to find and patience than I have in my soul to conserve. But really this is a relaxing hobby.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Those are lovely. I don’t know if I could resist. The world keeps spinning. Will the people that replace us appreciate them any more? But I guess you have beautiful ones you already smoke, and it’s worth it to have these pristine ones to admire in pristine condition. Darn this infernal hobby! I just got that prewar Kaywoodie I’ve really wanted but it’s not enough. I want an earlier pipe with a band like these. I happen to like pipes with vulcanite stems because I want to drive myself crazy. I want more of them. Older, more beautiful ones, that require more effort to find and patience than I have in my soul to conserve. But really this is a relaxing hobby.

"Will those that replace us appreciate them?" Impossible to say, but I'll be dead so I won't care.

"Those are lovely. I don’t know if I could resist" Thank you, they are among my favorites but I have a lot of very old American made pipes from various factories and I do smoke many of them, the unsmoked ones will only be that way once. They will stay that way on my watch.

Collecting century old pipes can be trying, they often need work that most repairmen won't touch. If you're into antique pipes learning some resto and repair techniques is a must.

 

[FLDRD]

From the Wikipedia article on Ebonite:​

​

Ultraviolet and daylight exposure​

Under the influence of the ultraviolet portion of daylight, hard rubber oxidizes. Subsequent exposure to moisture bonds water with free sulfur on the surface, creating sulfates and sulfuric acid at the surface that are very hygroscopic. The sulfates condense water from the air, forming a hydrophilic film with favorable wettability characteristics on the surface.[6] These aging processes will gradually discolor the surface grayish green to brown and cause rapid deterioration of electric surface resistivity.

Ebonite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the simplest explanation I've found. Otherwise, there are more detailed explanations but they come to the same conclusion. Vulcanite is hard rubber, and this kind of oxidation is a quality of hard rubber. Not all Vulcanite is created equal, so the propensity for discoloring can be related to the percentage of sulfur in the mix, which varies according to the intended use.

If you want something more technical:

Experiments on the Causes of the Deterioration of Ebonite when Exposed to Light and Air

Abstract. (1) The surface film of a sample of ebonite—containing no “free” sulfur—has been shown to develop distinct traces of sulfurous and sulfuric acid after exposure to light in a moist atmosphere for a period of four weeks. (2) The above acids appear to result from the oxidation of hydrogen...

meridian.allenpress.com

So I'm pondering whether that sulfuric acid on these stems, however small, may be responsible for the irritation to my inner lips I've recently experienced from my oxidized rubber stems. I've tested and when I only use acrylic, it subsides. But I've got some discolored old Peterson stems on pipes I like but they just destroy the inner lining of my lips...
It looks / sounds like maintenance of these will be a forever project and I may be inclined to sell a lot of pipes with those stems to others who don't mind it.

 

[mso489]

It's like tarnish or rust. You can have zero if you want to spend the time to attain that. If it is worth it, you judge.