I Didn't Realize I Was A Snob, But I Am . . .
- Thread starter plateauguy
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
- Status
I agree with Brian64.
When I smoke my pipe sitting in the street in a plastic chair. The streets here are used as an extension of your living space. When smoking an aero. the neighborhood children will see where the air is moving the smoke, and that is where they will congregate. They like pipe smoke, especially ones like Buttered Rum or Amaretto.
When I smoke my pipe sitting in the street in a plastic chair. The streets here are used as an extension of your living space. When smoking an aero. the neighborhood children will see where the air is moving the smoke, and that is where they will congregate. They like pipe smoke, especially ones like Buttered Rum or Amaretto.
rothnh, with all due respect to you (and I mean that), I couldn't disagree more (besides I enjoy a lively debate - so don't take what I say personally).
These days everything is rapidly becoming illegal. IMHO there are too many fines, too many people in prisons.
SALON: US has more prisoners, prisons than any other country. America's incarceration rates are highest in the world.
I realize that fines aren't prison, but it's another nail in the coffin. And if you're too poor to pay the fine, the next step may be prison. I believe that if the gov't stopped all ticketing, fining and imprisoning for minor infractions, you know what would happen - nothing. IMO, there wouldn't be this rapid expansion of "criminal" or illegal activity.
Education is better than incarceration (or fines). Like they did back in the '70s, remember the "give a hoot, don't pollute" commercials? And the crying Native American? These methods would accomplish more than ticketing and incarcerating the populace - and cost less too.
Education is better than incarceration (or fines). Like they did back in the '70s, remember the "give a hoot, don't pollute" commercials? And the crying Native American?
__________________________________
Because I'm half Lakota, I can say this: My family use to laugh at the crying Native American and ask if the makers of the commercial had ever been on a reservation. All you saw was garbage and old cars stacked up along side the houses.
I think I just made the argument for education with personal pride throw in.
Then there is the argument that fines could pay for the education, but then there is the government agency that it needed to collect and distribute the fines and monitor that they are being spent correctly, and it goes on and on.
Parents, do your job! Teach manners!
__________________________________
Because I'm half Lakota, I can say this: My family use to laugh at the crying Native American and ask if the makers of the commercial had ever been on a reservation. All you saw was garbage and old cars stacked up along side the houses.
I think I just made the argument for education with personal pride throw in.
Then there is the argument that fines could pay for the education, but then there is the government agency that it needed to collect and distribute the fines and monitor that they are being spent correctly, and it goes on and on.
Parents, do your job! Teach manners!
I nearly got into a fight with a young man who threw a glass bottle down in a parking lot. The glass broke and he was gonna leave it to give someone a flat tire. His pathetic female picked it up for him, and put it in the trash can I drug over to him when he first refused. I just took the trash can back and shook my head about how disrespectful this fella is, and how his female was probably soon to be a domestic abuse case.
I agree with you Six, but not totally. While they should not continue to make everything again law by expanding the criminal code, they should punish existing infractions. I do however propose a different punishment.
Because people operate at a percieved level of risk, removal of punishment for these infractions would only result in worse driving, worse littering, and a lower standard of acceptable behavior.
However if you made yhe punishment fit the crime there would be some better results. For example; A person throws a cig butt down and a police officer then makes that person pick up every cig butt on the whole block. If the place is clean give the offender the option of eating the cig butt or drinking it in a glass of water. Other litterers could be made to stand in a park trash can for a whole day on the weekend.
I agree with you Six, but not totally. While they should not continue to make everything again law by expanding the criminal code, they should punish existing infractions. I do however propose a different punishment.
Because people operate at a percieved level of risk, removal of punishment for these infractions would only result in worse driving, worse littering, and a lower standard of acceptable behavior.
However if you made yhe punishment fit the crime there would be some better results. For example; A person throws a cig butt down and a police officer then makes that person pick up every cig butt on the whole block. If the place is clean give the offender the option of eating the cig butt or drinking it in a glass of water. Other litterers could be made to stand in a park trash can for a whole day on the weekend.
Littering sucks no doubt. The cig smoker community has some very rude people in it. The Pipe smoking community has some very rude people in it. The fill in the blank club has some very rude people in it. All in all its trash on the street, if it bothers you pick it up. It would at best be a law concerning pet peeves’ of some people. Lets add punishment for wearing stripes and plaid together because it actually effects me just as much. It is unpleasant to look at. Also I would much rather Courts and Cops do things to actually protect and help a community be a safer place than padding the budget with punishing morality of an individual.
That being said if a kid litters and their parents are there and dont say anything I fully support smacking them in the face as hard as you can.
That being said if a kid litters and their parents are there and dont say anything I fully support smacking them in the face as hard as you can.
True. Back in the day, these commercials (I believe) were considered a public service announcement and so the airtime cost was drastically reduced.
I've read arguments (which I am inclined to believe) that overall, the time spent policing minor infractions, the expense of the court systems designed to enforce the fines and the prison systems used to incarcerate non-violent, non-repeating criminals still costs more (and accomplishes less) than education.
Of course one could argue, with a mischievous grin, that litter is an industry providing jobs for many people all across the country. It even provides volunteer opportunities, which allow a person to feel righteous and perhaps a tinge of moral superiority. That is arguably a nice thing to do for a person... :twisted:
Roth wrote:
I like the stiff fines but they are seldom enforced.
@Numbersix: Littering has always been illegal (at least in my life time) and carries a pretty hefty fine when enforced. I do agree that most of the new laws tend to be ridiculous.
Agreed. But true Libertarians believe that they should be allowed to live freely as long as their actions do not harm anyone or infringe on others rights. When you throw your cigs and butts on the ground for others to dispose of or blow smoke rings in someone's face while they are eating lunch (I had this happen to me once) it is just plain selfish/childish behavior and not the act of a true Libertarian.
I like the stiff fines but they are seldom enforced.
@Numbersix: Littering has always been illegal (at least in my life time) and carries a pretty hefty fine when enforced. I do agree that most of the new laws tend to be ridiculous.
A couple of years ago, we were involved in a wreck with a drunk driver. He was arrested and sat in jail for three weeks because his girlfriend and his family would not bail him out. Then, the DA called me and said that they weren't interested in pursuing the case. They asked if I would accept a payment plan to pay for the damages so they could release him.
If the courts are too busy and overworked to prosecute a drunk driver involved in an accident with no insurance, they certainly aren't going to enforce littering laws.
If the courts are too busy and overworked to prosecute a drunk driver involved in an accident with no insurance, they certainly aren't going to enforce littering laws.
In Singapore they cane you for throwing trash or butts on the the ground, there is no trash or cigarette butts on the ground. Nuff Said!
At six years or so of age, my father and I were nearing the door of a local movie store- Mr. Movies to be precise, when we witnessed a young adult male throw his cigarette butt on the ground. My father then told me: "When we get close to this guy in the store, I want you to say to me 'Dad, how come smokers throw their cigarette butts on the ground when there's a place to dispose of them right next to the door? It's really gross, and isn't it littering?'" I'm not sure how the guy reacted, he obviously wouldn't have responded to a six year old, but maybe a six year old basically calling him out was enough for him to think about his actions.
Often times I wish could travel back in time to the age of the Neanderthals, just to smell the air.
Often times I wish could travel back in time to the age of the Neanderthals, just to smell the air.
I think the original post said " ashes", Cig filters look ugly but disolve, the material is used by companies that want to absorve oil spills. You start talking down Cigarette smokers, cigar smokers & when you get off your Pipe smokers "High Horse", you are no different or better than those mentioned previously and that want to ban all tobacco & smoking anything but MaryJane anywhere in the world.
Brian-I think you are confusing "Libertarian" and "Liberal." A Libertarian, like myself, wants everyone to be completely left alone by government action of any scale unless their behavior negatively affects others to such a degree that it limits that person's freedom of action. In other words, government exists only to limit coercion and violates its own purpose when it coerces others without just cause.
Banning smoking is disdained by any true Libertarian, as is banning guns, banning alcohol, heavy taxation, etc.
Banning smoking is disdained by any true Libertarian, as is banning guns, banning alcohol, heavy taxation, etc.
- Status