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I realized that I didn't say "thank you" for the offer. I do appreciate the offer, but I wasn't truly offended enough to deserve a pipe. I mean, if I truly felt my feeling were hurt, then yeh. It was more like I happened to be on the sofa when the conversation started. Ha ha.
I still don't understand who these terrible pipemakers are. I do like these new pipe makers that I keep running into in our area. I haven't seen any terrible pipes, but Todd puts more attention to detail into his stemwork than most pipe makers. Even many high grade Danish pipes don't tend to put the detail into the button design and bore that he does. But, the new guys that I've met, like Rowley, Black, and even some kids getting into it, I like what they're doing. Pipes are more than prices, to me. More than just smoking tools. The best ones are relationships. Waiting for it, anticipation, effort. The courtship of learning how it wants to be smoked. The way it feels. The way it looks. The way it responds to me and how I smoke. Two holes in a piece of wood, all else is just what our minds make of it. Whether a "master" made it, or a kid with an imagination. Not everyone sees pipes or smokes pipes the same way. If I find that giving $500 to an up and coming radical is worth it to start the relationship, whether it was carved on someone's front porch with a pocketknife and a drill press or frazed out like a mass produced widgit, that is my decision. And, I am glad that the market is wide open.
In my own work, jewelry, there are self-taught folks hitting a piece of silver four times with a hammer and calling it a pendant and asking four or five times what I get for custom cut stones in classical mountings, but that diversity only enriches the market. Competition builds interest in what the rest of us are doing. It's a good thing. Pipe smoking is on the upswing. I see it in my own neighborhood, my own town, running into new pipe guys and girls. Less couch room at the B&M. Having a flood of new folks, self-taught, or picked it up at a workshop, or some sort of apprenticeship, all of that doesn't matter a hill of beans to me.
I think this whole string was just caused by some growing pains in the field, ...maybe. :puffy:

 

moriarty

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 3, 2012
144
1
I'm on a different time zone here in Singapore and clearly a lot more debate has happened overnight - not surprising. I welcome the post that Todd made here and it was elegant and balanced. I thought Flatticus' ten-point list was very thoughtful and probably captures everything I could think or say about this. I understand that enthusiasm and passion in an environment with like-minded people can lead to misjudged and exaggerated comments being posted, and I'm sure that was part of Todd's mistake in the PSF thread. Nevertheless, I assume that Todd's comments on PSF do reveal an attitude that he has that I understand but disagree with. Respectfully.
I do get that there are pipes being sold at prices that are very high considering the skill level of the pipemaker, and I guess this may not be sustainable for those pipemakers over time. But I also feel that people who buy pipes have a variety of reasons for choosing one over another, and who is any of us to say that their choice is wrong or uneducated? It doesn't matter if someone chooses a pipe because of the style and its association with a particular community of people, like the YouTube pipesmoking fraternity, instead of something else that might be better engineered but a completely different genre. My view is that anyone who buys any pipe for any reason, and enjoys what they have, is ok with me. I will not tell them they have made a bad choice because it simply depends on what they are looking for. And pipemakers who are making what these customers want are ok with me too. I don't think anyone is getting ripped-off and there does not seem to be much evidence that customers are unhappy with the pipes they have bought.
That's it, really. I have my own criteria for what I want in a pipe, Todd has his, and the guy with the beanie and the beard has his. And it's all ok - if we're all happy with what we smoke then we all made the right choices. I think Todd is wrong to feel that people buying pipes that don't meet his standards is reflecting badly on him and other pipemakers. I think these are all distinct markets and every enthusiastic pipesmoker of every ilk is a source of pleasure to me. I don't think there is any confusion between a colourful, stubby poker from a new, part-time pipemaker and a grade-6 Michael Parks. And this is a broad church - different kinds of pipe smoker, different kinds of pipemaker, different criteria. Who knows, some of these guys may one day gravitate toward classic pipes or so-called high-grade artisan pipes, and they may fall in love with a Todd Johnson handmade pipe. But probably not if they remember Todd saying they and their friends smoke turds and are simpletons.
I say let it all go. Make the best pipes you can for your market and make them the way you think they should be made. That will satisfy you and if you meet the standards you aspire to then I suspect you will be successful with it. Don't worry about what other people are doing. If your pipes aren't reaching the beard guys, and this troubles you, then make something they they would like and market it in a way they would respond to. But maybe you've burned that bridge.
Thank you, Todd, for engaging in the discussion here. I respect that.

 

layinpipe

Lifer
Feb 28, 2014
1,025
12
This thread and its topics of discussion, on both sides, has been one of the best, most entertaining and informative pieces of internet discourse i have read on this forum. It contained it all; both relevant and irrelevant links to other sites and videos, internet GIF's and MEME's, humor, anger, frustration, regret and apologies, understanding, nostalgia, self deprication, suspicion, free pipes, criticism and most importantly, a poor innocent horse that sacrificed his life to be beaten to the earth's core. I don't believe Ike beat Tina as much as that poor horse was flogged.
I, for one, am glad there has been some controversial threads as of late, although very disturbed to hear of a few well liked and respected members being booted/leaving the forum. Seeing the same damn topics being posted 3 times a day every day gets old, especially since there is clearly an easy to identify search function available to use any time. The proverbial "dead horse" in this thread got a back scratching compared to the topics that get flogged and beaten mercilessly day after day on here. Variety is the spice of life and i think that is one of the reasons why so many people come and go on this forum; monotony and the deletion/closing of a thread at the first sight of any controversy or someone speaking their mind. I understand personal attacks and insults, political and religious banter and other very sensitive and polarizing issues, but i think the trigger finger of those in charge could be a little less itchy at times. I like a good heated discussion and a bit of controversy, as it oftentimes leads to forward progress. Sure it can also lead to a lot of other more negative things, but controversy sells in every sense of the word. Look at the news, newspapers and internet news sites. They would most likely not exist if it wasn't for controversy, heated/sensitive topics of discussion, violence and the mistakes that people and organizations make.
I hope this thread does not get closed, as there is a lot of useful information and insight found within by a lot of very credible and knowledgeable people who share our hobby and are passionate about it. Thanks for the entertainment. 8)

 

brewshooter

Lifer
Jun 2, 2011
1,658
4
Well, after all is said and done, I am kicking myself for NOT picking up one of the Icarus Stubby Apples I saw at the West Coast Pipe show. After purchasing three pipes I realized, as much as I wanted it, it was a pipe I would be able to find later. So, I limited myself to handmade one offs that day, but it's on my list for my next purchase.
...and speaking of the Dagners, dont' even get me started about how Jayson Dagner tried to steal my beautiful little Rimkus away that day!!! Okay, not really, but sort of. The joke's on you Dagner. She's mine, all mine!!!
Haaaa, haaa, haaa!!!
Haaaaaaaaa, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, hu,hu (COUGH), heh, yes, anyway.

 

cobguy

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
3,742
17
I like Cobs ... they smoke better than all of those briar turds! 8O
LOL ... sorry but it just seemed like the pot wasn't simmering anymore! :rofl:

 

peteprevost

Lurker
Mar 5, 2015
2
0
Hey Everyone,
This is my first post to the forum. In case you don't know me, I am a pipe maker and I am also Todd's right hand man at BriarWorks. I don't usually say much or get too involved in any sort of drama, but I thought I would to say a couple of things real quick to add a little bit more perspective to this discussion. So here it goes.
Todd and I have worked together for many years. We are two very different people. Todd speaks his mind whether you like it or not, and I am typically the peacekeeper (most of the time). That is actually what makes our relationship work really well. Not many people know Todd as well as I do. I know he is passionate about things are important to him, and sometimes that gets him into trouble. I am very grateful to Todd for everything he has taught me, and the opportunity to help start a pipe factory that I believe is revolutionary. We are still new, and don't have everything figured out, but we are growing everyday. We make a lot of mistakes, and we learn from them.
Our one and only goal as a company, is to make the best serially produced pipe that has ever been made. I can proudly say that no one has or will ever see BriarWorks rant or talk negatively about anyone. I personally run all of the BriarWorks social media, and I make a point to keep everything professional and in good spirits.
We are not concerned about what everyone else is up to. We are not worried about our "competition." We are simply concerned about doing our part to educate consumers, make a fantastic product, and continue helping the pipe community thrive.
I am happy to be here on this forum, and I hope that I am welcome. Let me end with this. I'm hopeful for the future of BriarWorks. We officially launched our pipes less than a year ago. We have so many great shapes being added to our catalog, and additional products coming out over the next year. It's exciting! Over time we intend to make shapes, sizes, adornments, finishes, and prices that cater to every pipe smoker, ever the "beard bruhs" as Todd has said. :)
The bottom line is, we don't hate anyone. We are excited about the changes and future of pipes, whatever that may look like, and I would also personally ask one thing. Whatever you have experienced or heard negatively about us in the past, would you please erase that and let us have a fresh start. We really do mean well, and I hope that you give us a try.
Thanks for reading my ramblings.
Pete

 

pipebaum81

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 23, 2014
669
235
+45 layinpipe
To Pete, I feel for you, brother. I have a father that I constantly need to apologize for and try to explain to others. He is brash, unapologetic and can spontaneously blow at any moment. But he is my Dad and I will love and stand by him for as long as I have him around. Good luck on your growing business. I do not know your Todd but you seem to be Johnny-on-the-spot ready with a mop to clean up whatever has been spilled. It seems to me you are the man to "personally run all of the BriarWorks social media, and…[making] a point to keep everything professional and in good spirits."
j/B

 

keith929

Lifer
Nov 23, 2010
2,386
12,671
I am offended by this entire thread.

Hey Todd about that free pipe offer......(no shame in my game). :wink:

 

pipebaum81

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 23, 2014
669
235
I am offended by this entire thread.
Keith929, I am right there with ya! Offense is free and is always in abundance. All one has to do is just put forward the half effort to look.

 
+1, everyone I know just calls them Todd Johnson pipes. Heck, I didn't even know there was a company called a Briarworks. At our club meeting it was billed as Todd Johnson's Icarus and Neptune pipes. And, we all expected Todd to be there, instead of the salesman. It would be like Colonel Sanders bad mouthing other fast foods and those that buy them and expecting people to accept that Colonel Sabders is not KFC.

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
2,072
856
NW Missouri
I feel like I am living in a formerly quiet town suddenly inundated by an influx of newcomers who all belong to one of two warring gangs. I wish the gang members would simply to return to the Pipe Makers' Forum - which I can only presume is some sort of hellish ghetto - and leave us in peace.

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
2,072
856
NW Missouri
Maybe a better metaphor would be this: the newcomers fighting it out here are like having a group of drunken strangers show up in front of your house at 11 p.m. and begin arguing and brawling. They may be fun to watch for the first hour, but by midnight you wish they would just move along down the road.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
12,281
18,262
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
I'm now participating just to build post count. So . . . you guys do not let this get out of control make it go "poof" into the ether. Closing is all right as we get to keep our counts.
That is indeed a grand metaphor Buroak.
But, really guys, just how many times can the same thing be said without it getting very boring. Hopefully a mod will get tired of the constant need for monitoring, realize that the posts are getting redundant and that everyone has run out of ways to write the same stale thing over and over.

 

pipebaum81

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 23, 2014
669
235
To steer this slightly slantways, as a pipe smoker who has no ambition in being a artisan pipe craftsman, I would like to say this:
This whole broody, holier than though attitude SOME of the members of carving world bring to the table is one of the most undesirable aspects of the pipe community. It has been discussed here before concerning other carvers and the way they hold the pipe smoking community in contempt. Who likes the talent that says "I am a real artist and all others fall in my wake" or "You the pipe smoker are the turd. Hand me back that fine artwork briar. It is above you and your pocketbook."
I get it; without thinking you are the best one may never put his toe in the water and think they have something to offer the well-established pipe makers community. Should you not at least consider doing it with grace, humility and tempered hubris? Should you not respect your competition instead of holding them in contempt? Do you not realize that the appreciation of your "art" and the acceptance granted by us turds and the turd-fake-pipe-maker-masses is what validates your creation?
People who I know that would like to smoke a pipe but don't often tell me that they would but they see it as elitist and feel that they would be dealt with harshly. The worst elitist attitudes I have encountered are rooted in the so-called quality of your pipe. I'd much rather smoke with a gentleman puffing on a Dr G packed with Captain Black than the guy who treats me like a serf because I smoke a factory pipe.
j/B

 
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