HVAC Replacement

[mso489]

Our Trane a.c.is 13 years old and has become undependable. Our old warrior furnace furnace is ... wait for it ... 26 years old and sketchy in dependability. The consultant (salesman) said it's best to replace both units so they are appropriately matched up. Lennox is the brand we're looking at. A big purge of savings, but assumed to be necessary at this point. I'll likely take the plunge. My wife, with her mobility problems, doesn't need any more discomfort in her life. However, I thought I'd post for any ideas or questions I should ask. There's a modest rebate from the power company for the matched units. There's the choice between a standard and premium motor, with not a big difference in price. I think this is a sort of duty call, especially after spectacular performance from the furnace. Any thoughts are welcome. The a.c. is back running after its second freezing over, literally iced, but it will only go a few weeks at best, it seems. We hit a heat wave. The Lennox is a premium unit, but the standard unit, a Rheem, isn't a great deal less in price. Etc. (There's the previous furnace still under the house, but I don't know if I can get it dismantled and hauled out. It's a monster, was defunct when I moved in.) One miserable little entry door to the crawl space, located in a closet, and no other outdoor access.

 

[carolinachurchwarden]

My Dad owned his own heating and air business for most of my life. In all the interactions I've witnessed and been around, he would approach the situation from all sides, such as from an economical, efficiency, and logical standpoint. He would generally run a calculation first to see what type of air you need for the house, from a sizing standpoint. He would determine if what you currently have was the appropriate size for your home in the first place, then match up whatever equipment he was selling at the time. He would make sure that the equipment he offered was suited for the highest efficiency for the space you have, not only from the purchasing end, but also to make sure your power bill didn't eat you alive. Make sure they run a load calculation to ensure you get what you need. If you wonder about cost, their are a lot of companies out there that also offer financing. If you don't really need a lot of air, you could also consider trying a mini-split system. They're cheaper and a great solution to providing the air you need at a price point that's a little more reasonable.
In the mean time, I would check with them to see if they can run some stop leak into your system. The freezing comes from a potential leak that you have in your system. A loss of freon in the system causes that outside coil to freeze up like an iceberg. It's a simple and easy fix for the time being that should last longer than a couple weeks, as long as the leak isn't too bad. That stuff basically works like fix-a-flat. They run it into the system, then add more freon.

 

[woodsroad]

+1 on mini-splits.
We live in an old house with hydronic heat, no ducts. When we bought the house there was no A/C, so mini-splits were our only reasonable option without tearing out the walls for air ducts. We could have done a high-pressure unit, but since we have old lathe plaster walls with not a lot of space between the studs, there was a strong possibility that they would have had to open the walls to get the tubes through anyway.
Pros:

-Very efficient proportional output (output matches demand, scales back as the house cools. Not on/off/on/off. This means that there isn't ice cold air blowing through the house, which makes things very comfortable.
-Very quiet, both in the house and outside at the compressor. The outside units are almost completely quiet.
-High EER, Lower operating cost.
Cons:
-Must have a wall unit wherever you need cooling. This wasn't an issue for us. 5 wall units cools our 2,000 square feet.
-Wall units must be maintained. Each one is an air exchange unit, so they get dirty. Ask a lot of questions about ease of cleaning. We have 10 year old Fujitsu units and cleaning, beyond rinsing the filters, is difficult.
-Condensate must be drained from each wall unit (ours go to the basement) and the drain pipes/tubes can get gummed up with biofilm. Make sure that drain pipes. tubes are adequately sized.
-Air moisture removal decreases markedly as the house cools and wall unit cooling temps rise. In humid areas, inside humidity can eventually equal outside humidity.
All in all, we're happy with our choice, but there were trade offs, the lack of moisture removal being the biggest issue, the cleaning being the next.
My experience, yours may vary.

 

[woodsroad]

Also:
Pro:

-Mini splits do double duty. They reverse for heating in the winter. We heat with wood with one wood stove, and having the mini-splits on the periphery has been nice.
Con:

-Mini splits are susceptible to lightning-induced voltage spikes. Install a whole house surge protector.

 

[papipeguy]

I replaced 2 AC's and furnaces few years ago. I also had them install a unit that requires a filter change only once a year. Big out lay at first but changing the filter once a year is way easier. at 97% efficiency it made sense.

 

[woodsroad]

An electrostatic dust precipitator is a wonderful thing for central air/forced hot air heat.
Option: Move to Maine. No A/C needed.

 

[bnichols23]

In addition to what ccw said about freon, something else to keep in mind is that freon is going away in a couple of years, & the little that's left to suppliers even now is high as a cat's back *today*, never mind when it gets even scarcer.

And even relatively recent (12 yrs old) units like ours aren't compatible with the new stuff. What to do, what to do.....

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

You've gotten more than expected out of the units. Replace them both and go with a high quality product. This isn't an area you want to cut corners with.
We have a fairly large house that's two stories. We purchased a stand up unit for our master bedroom. We cut in an exhaust vent. Best move we ever made. We can keep the downstairs at a comfortable temperature and enjoy a very comfortable night's sleep. Good luck with your decision and install.

 

[mso489]

Thank you, gentlemen. These are very informative posts and I'll take all under careful consideration. We'll do something soon to keep life on an even keel. Any other comments or suggestions are welcome. hoosier', I think your prompt is appropriate. It's not a flashy purchase, but fundamental to daily living. I have a friend who idealistically lives without a.c., making many adjustments to do so. I think it is admirable and he does it intelligently, but I hope he is careful about it; aging and living in heat don't complement each other, and he isn't, and we aren't "spring chickens." Some young friends, neighbors at my first house, lived without a.c. in N.C. for a number of years, but finally relented when their shoes grew coats of mildew in the closet. ... in addition to having limited access to the furnace and part of the a.c. mechanics only through a door in the closet, I have always been irked at the terrible door in the furnace to replace the filter, really primitive poor design. One of the techs, not the salesman, assured me that in the current units, this has been improved. It's not a good sturdy door on a hinge or track, but it is two bolts and positive closure; I hope that's accurate.

 

[woodsroad]

Enjoying life is not about delayed gratification, no matter what the self-righteous might say. Be judicious with your spending, but make life comfortable for yourself and your family. Enjoy the here and now, it only happens once.

 

[cigrmaster]

My hvac unit is 12 years old. I have had work done on it in the past and it is still running quite well. 12 years old is not that old for units of this type. Freezing over is not a big deal and if they fixed it properly it should last at least 5 years. Saying it will only hold for a few weeks wreaks of typical sales bull shit. I would never use that company again and I would get 3 companies to look at your unit and then get quotes from each to either fix it properly and also give you quotes for new units.
When dealing with hvac companies you need to research them with the better business bureau as many are lying sacks of shit. I have been through at least a dozen in the commercial arena as well as half a dozen since I moved to Florida. Finding an honest company is hard to do.

 

[tbradsim1]

I have done Referigration work, ran a Ethylene Cold box that went to -240 degrees, But I am no expert. But here are some common sense ideas. Servicemen tell me the more nuts Up unit you buy, the harder it is to service, in plain language too many doodads to go wrong. Your freezing problems,may be low on freon, msybe leak somewhere. I have a hundred year old house with central, 14 yrs old. I'm thinking about the splits when I have to renew. Harris is right, that business has many unsavory people, talk with satisfied customers, Angies list is a good thing, used them for deck work. Just my two cents nit may not even be worth that. :rofl:

 

[Waning Embers]

Replaced a thirty year old Central heat and air with a high efficiency Payne system four years ago. Space saving system, and works great!

 

[carolinachurchwarden]

Some of that is true. Their are quite a few jack legs out there. Bigger pirates than Bnichols hanging on the mast, smoking BF and shaking Mike down for being a Brit before letting him sail. My Dad got out of the business because of a lot of other companies practices. Cutting corners here and there, selling the work at cost just to keep their guys working even though they take a loss. That technique might keep the guys working, but I gurantee they cut corner. Angies List might be a great place to look. Some of the biggest jack legs my Dad had to compete with sold Trane, Lennox, many big name manufacturer's. Great equipment can't make up for poor workmanship. If they size it wrong, the equipment can't run as efficiently, which costs you more in the long run. My Dad was a sharp tongued salesman too, but I saw for myself the pride he had in his work compared to the other guys that just plan didn't care.

 

[mso489]

Boy, there are no guarantees here, but a viable warranty if we're lucky. I've been using this HVAC group for some years, and they seem to be responsible, have not charged me for a second needed call on a repair. They get high marks in reviews. I'm never starry eyed, but as a skeptic I say better the devil I know. You have to go with eyes wide open (while not being wide-eyed, as it were). "Great equipment can't make up for poor workmanship," is a great point. These posts help me think about your salient points, and bring to mind others, so are very helpful.

 

[mikethompson]

You are simply too valuble to the forum to be uncomfortable MSO.

 

[bnichols23]

Got that right, Mike. A grumpy or steamed up mso is a bad thing always.

 

[pepesdad1]

You have gotten quality info. here. Recently had to replace my unit and fortunately have a good A/C man. Made a point of not pushing too big a unit for what we needed. A quality appraisal of what you need is as important as the equip. you get.

 

[bnichols23]

Got that right, Mike. A grumpy or steamed up mso is a bad thing always.

 

[bnichols23]

Sorry. Hate double posts when I put the droid in my shirt pocket.