How to Date This Charatan Special 4651

[lee2]

Got a piece of Charatan Special 4651 from a eBay Lot sales. I've never seen CP logo like this before. Any idea about dating it?

 

[lasttango]

Looks like a Lane First Era? Though it almost meets the criteria for a Ruben Era pipe due to the tapered stem... I am also no expert... just a budding enthusiast. The shape is throwing me however.

https://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans

 

[lee2]

Looks like a Lane First Era? Though it almost meets the criteria for a Ruben Era pipe due to the tapered stem... I am also no expert... just a budding enthusiast. The shape is throwing me however.

https://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans

Thanks lasttango, that's what I thought. The tapered stem looks like a pre-lane era. No idea what information can be got from the shape and shape number.
More interesting thing is the logo, never found one like this either on pipedia.org or pipephil.eu

 

[paulfg]

the shape 4651 shape is listed as The Banker in charatan's catalogue.
http://www.alpascia.com/moments/d/Charatan-Pipes-i28211.html
I have one in this shape Belvedere model mine ix 4651x and has a tapered stem like yours but my guess is also yours is earlier as there is no X or DC denoting the stem type.

As for the stamp I too have not seen that one ,but i am no expert

perhaps our Charatan's expert will appear he soon

 

[ssjones]

I would guess second era, due to these details, but I've never seen a CP logo exactly like that one. I wonder if it could be a replacement stem and the CP stamped by the maker?
From Pipepedia:

Identification of a second era pipe (Rueben's era, 1910-1960)
Pipes belonging to this period are rare, however is it possible to come across one. They can be distinguished from a pipe of the first era mainly because their larger size.
Their characteristics are similar to the ones of the previous era.
1) Pipes can be larger, up to the dimension of a Dunhill group 5
2) The mouthpiece is tapered or saddle.
3) No double comfort
4) the CP logo is engraved so that the C enters the P
5) Absence of £ on the pipe shank (note that from 1955 all the pipe imported in the USA by Lane has it, however that stamping is not synonymous of the Lane era).
6) Absence of the letter X on the shape code engraved on the shank (for ex. 2502 and not 2502X)
7) Absence of letters DC after the shape number (for ex. 2502 and not 2505DC)
8) Absence of the engraving “MADE BY HAND” on the shank (introduced for the first time in 1958)
9) Presence of the writing “CHARATAN'S MAKE LONDON ENGLAND” on 2 lines
10) The CP logo is finer than in following eras

 

[lee2]

the shape 4651 shape is listed as The Banker in charatan's catalogue.
http://www.alpascia.com/moments/d/Charatan-Pipes-i28211.html

That's a great article, thanks Paul!
A very interesting shape chart listed in it.

 

[lee2]

I would guess second era, due to these details, but I've never seen a CP logo exactly like that one. I wonder if it could be a replacement stem and the CP stamped by the maker?

Thanks ssjones, appreciated for the input. It could be a replacement, though I'm quite doubting that anyone would make a hard stamp for one stem replacing :roll:
Still curious if anyone has seen a same logo before.