How Many Blends are There *Really*
- Thread starter JD Buckeye
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I agree that a boat load of english blends are repeats. There are some that are more complex than others. Also a few stand out so its not fair to lump them all in one pile.
Ive not come even close to scratching the surface but I found that GLP Quiet Nights has a unique profile. HU Tuarekh is a good cheaper substitute in the Europe but QN is more intense.
Most of the rest Ive tried, about a dozen, tend to fall in the same pile. I like them but not enough to place them on order. When one jar I opened gets smoked I will move on to the other.
Im not trying to knock C&D but there are business models that rely on constanly adding new product. They certainly have a stable core of blends but there is money to be made from NEW AND IMPROVED! No offense really intended, I hope they make money and stay in business but their catalogue is daunting to say the least.
Ive not come even close to scratching the surface but I found that GLP Quiet Nights has a unique profile. HU Tuarekh is a good cheaper substitute in the Europe but QN is more intense.
Most of the rest Ive tried, about a dozen, tend to fall in the same pile. I like them but not enough to place them on order. When one jar I opened gets smoked I will move on to the other.
Im not trying to knock C&D but there are business models that rely on constanly adding new product. They certainly have a stable core of blends but there is money to be made from NEW AND IMPROVED! No offense really intended, I hope they make money and stay in business but their catalogue is daunting to say the least.
This is exactly the answer I was looking for. When I started trying English blends, I started with some crossovers and there were a couple that were suspiciously similar (with top note anyway maybe a Lane and a Sutliff offering...I forget now).
This practice is not new, people either do not notice or they do and swear it's a great new thing (it's not
).
For certain. I'm not knocking Sykes and Co. I respect what they're doing and I don't really have an issue other than to say I wish there might be a bit more transparency IF there is a bulk blends that is identical to GLP or Ten Russians or Drucquer. I could use the filter tool to find the constituent tobaccos but pipe tobacco is like the pentatonic scale, you can make a hell of a lot of different music with just 5 notes.
According to Stedham's International Registry, as of December 31, 2024, there were 4,,237,363 pipe-tobacco blends.
There are over 40 different types of Oriental varieties, and there 14 different types of commercial flue cured varieties that we call Virginias. Many more of both in the heirloom varieties. It's not hard to imagine an infinite amount of latakia based blends with so many different type of ingredients to chose from.
But, if your palate isn't trained well enough to differentiate between these blends, then it probably does seem absurd to you. I get that. But, pipesmoking being more of an aficionado endeavor or hobby, most pipe smokers want tons of different blends to tease out these differences in flavors.
Look at cigars, they've got way less different varietals, but they keep walls and walls of cigar shop humidors lined with those sticks.
For some, they can't taste the differences, so they are fine after the moment they find one they like, but many of us like to explore and test our ability to taste.
In this world where we are losing many blends to buy outs, we should applaud the massive variety of blends, not complain. If tasting and exploring isn't your reason for smoking pipes, that is perfectly fine. Many come into this for different reasons. But, don't knock it. We should all be happy that the market is strong enough to allow so many different blends.
But, if your palate isn't trained well enough to differentiate between these blends, then it probably does seem absurd to you. I get that. But, pipesmoking being more of an aficionado endeavor or hobby, most pipe smokers want tons of different blends to tease out these differences in flavors.
Look at cigars, they've got way less different varietals, but they keep walls and walls of cigar shop humidors lined with those sticks.
For some, they can't taste the differences, so they are fine after the moment they find one they like, but many of us like to explore and test our ability to taste.
In this world where we are losing many blends to buy outs, we should applaud the massive variety of blends, not complain. If tasting and exploring isn't your reason for smoking pipes, that is perfectly fine. Many come into this for different reasons. But, don't knock it. We should all be happy that the market is strong enough to allow so many different blends.
+1
I agree with both of these guys.
Because there are so many variables in the different types of Virginia and Oriental varieties it would be hard to make an exact match of one brand of English tobacco to another. Not impossible but hard.
I have been told that I'm wrong but I still believe that variance between one year's crop and and another year's crop of tobacco can also affect the taste. The good thing is that with the processing time required for the leaf, it could be years before a subtly change is made.
That's all fine, well and good but you miss my point that Low Country Rum and Rivertown maple cask are the same thing at two different price points. They may have enough difference that they may not have come from the same bin or hopper but they're the same. To your point, there is enough difference between them to explain it and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. 22 years in EOD and engineering taught me to question everything 🫡And, to duplicate blends... just one more Easter Egg to find in a well camouflaged hunting ground.
Another reason to keep your palate honed.
Let the games begin.
Back 10 or 12 years ago, Brian Levine was talking about Escudo and Dunhills Luxury Navy Rolls. He said that he had seen them being made, same tobaccos, same toppings, but put in two different tins. And, it seems like whoever he was talking to verified it. Everyone who was a fan of the Dunhill version had been paying $2 to 5 more per tin, said that there was no way that they could be the same. Even Jiminks said that there were differences.
I have no idea what the truth is behind that. Do we trust Brian who has worked at just about every pipe tobacco company, or the world's foremost authority of tasting? I have no dog in that.
People continue to pay the higher price for whatever it is that they love. So, I don't think it matters. Compared to cigars, pipe tobacco is about the cheapest form of tobacco on the market. It really is a poor man's past time, just as much as it can be a wealthy man's hobby.
Me? I've always said that I don't like to buy tobacco when it's on sale, because if it's cheap, I just can't enjoy it as much.
Yeah, listen...don't get me twisted it's your money and you enjoy it the way you want to. I'm the exact opposite but that's my own hangupBack 1o or 12 years ago, Brian Levine was talking about Escudo and Dunhills Luxury Navy Rolls. He said that he had seem them being made, same tobaccos, same toppings, but put in two different tins. And, it seems like whoever he was talking to verified it. Everyone who was a fan of the Dunhill version had been paying $2 to 5 more per tin, said that there was no way that they could be the same. Even Jiminks said that there were differences.
I have no idea what the truth is behind that. Do we trust Brian who has worked at just about every pipe tobacco company, or the world's foremost authority of tasting? I have no dog in that.
People continue to pay the higher price for whatever it is that they love. So, I don't think it matters. Compared to cigars, pipe tobacco is about the cheapest form of tobacco on the market. It really is a poor man's past time, just as much as it can be a wealthy man's hobby.
Me? I've always said that I don't like to buy tobacco when it's on sale, because if it's cheap, I just can't enjoy it as much.
I get the subtle difference and maybe some are very legitimately different and are tinned and etc, I think SOME, not all, perceived differences exist based on bias confirmation. We want brand A to be better and due to price, packaging and marketing, we perceived it to be. In the end, placebo effect is still an effect
On the marketing question, I have no way of knowing, but as @woodsroad mentioned Fusilier's and Bengal were the same (I still remember tasting them back and forth, trying to figure out the difference, before I learned about this), and I fully expect that plenty of that is going on across the board.
One other variable that I only recently suspected is that in much rarer cases, one tobacco might be the aged version of another. Specifically this came to mind when I recently started smoking Edisto. I can't prove this and may well be wrong, but it tastes to me like CRF when fresh.
For all that I know, CRF may just be 5-6 YO Edisto.
Anyway, like many others, I find that latakia overwhelms most else and so winds up equalizing most blends that it's dominant in. There are exceptions. Quiet Nights is distinct, as is Penzance. Peretti Omega stands out to me as at least higher quality than most. And there are others. But for run of the mill latakia mixtures, the flavor is more or less latakia.
It didn't used to be that way. When I first started, all the English blends seemed distinct. But once my palate transitioned to VA nuance, it would ever-after be overwhelmed by latakia in a way that flattened the distinction of the other components (usually).
One other variable that I only recently suspected is that in much rarer cases, one tobacco might be the aged version of another. Specifically this came to mind when I recently started smoking Edisto. I can't prove this and may well be wrong, but it tastes to me like CRF when fresh.
For all that I know, CRF may just be 5-6 YO Edisto.
Anyway, like many others, I find that latakia overwhelms most else and so winds up equalizing most blends that it's dominant in. There are exceptions. Quiet Nights is distinct, as is Penzance. Peretti Omega stands out to me as at least higher quality than most. And there are others. But for run of the mill latakia mixtures, the flavor is more or less latakia.
It didn't used to be that way. When I first started, all the English blends seemed distinct. But once my palate transitioned to VA nuance, it would ever-after be overwhelmed by latakia in a way that flattened the distinction of the other components (usually).
Its your problem that you cant taste the difference between the exquisite orientals fertilized with Istanbulian stray cat poo from the left side of plot 123456 and the ones not fertilized with same cat poo, dang it!
All jokes aside, from the limited experience I have with smoking in general and englishes in specific, I can tell the difference. Admittingly, one is Presbyterian where the sour notes of the orientals (either with or without cat poo) is prominent to me and Latakia is on the background, another one is a SG Shag blend with a vanilla aroma (forgot the name) where the vanilla is offsetting the Latakia very well. Yet another is C&D Star of the East Flake which is 50% Latakia and the other components are much more in the background. I like them all for their differences. Would I be able to tell one or another from all of them, offcourse not. And like said, some blends in a portfolio might be the same in another can, but thats happening all over the board with marketing.
I could call myself a beer geek and im convinced for a lot of beers, especially with IPA and barrel aged beers, its common to brew the same base beer and when fermenting make minor tweaks in hop profile which are not noticeable as most are brewing a high Beta acid hops on the cold side for them fruity flavors. But hey I can still market it as the next best thing as it has a different recipe. Or when putting a fermented beer in a barrel you in some cases wont be able to detect if it is casked in bourbon barrel A or B from distillery X or Y, its about the same. But it sounds interesting that the beer was barrel aged in a barrel from some non obtanium distillery.
All jokes aside, from the limited experience I have with smoking in general and englishes in specific, I can tell the difference. Admittingly, one is Presbyterian where the sour notes of the orientals (either with or without cat poo) is prominent to me and Latakia is on the background, another one is a SG Shag blend with a vanilla aroma (forgot the name) where the vanilla is offsetting the Latakia very well. Yet another is C&D Star of the East Flake which is 50% Latakia and the other components are much more in the background. I like them all for their differences. Would I be able to tell one or another from all of them, offcourse not. And like said, some blends in a portfolio might be the same in another can, but thats happening all over the board with marketing.
I could call myself a beer geek and im convinced for a lot of beers, especially with IPA and barrel aged beers, its common to brew the same base beer and when fermenting make minor tweaks in hop profile which are not noticeable as most are brewing a high Beta acid hops on the cold side for them fruity flavors. But hey I can still market it as the next best thing as it has a different recipe. Or when putting a fermented beer in a barrel you in some cases wont be able to detect if it is casked in bourbon barrel A or B from distillery X or Y, its about the same. But it sounds interesting that the beer was barrel aged in a barrel from some non obtanium distillery.
It depends on your palate in some cases. Which means there are people that can't tell the difference between any of them, as well as people that might be able to pick almost all of them out in a blind taste test. The thing is a lot of those differences don't really show themselves until you've smoked most of the tin and even more so when you only smoke through one or two tins at a time.
Sometimes even the only difference you can tell is that one just is slightly more enjoyable to you.
Convince you to try any blend. No thanks, frankly I don't care if you try every single available blend or only smoke whatever the first one you tried was. Do whatever pleases you the most. That said the only way to really answer your question isn't to ask us, but to try and see if you can see the differences.
One thing we forget with the internet is that brick and mortar stores might only care a few labels. And if they didn't occasionally make the same blend with difference packages they'd reach less customers.
Walk into a wine shop and look at the number of different wines. All are made from grape juice more or less and undoubtedly many are the same in their mix of varietals.
Nonetheless, there are differences enough due to location of the vineyard, skill of the winemaker, year of vintage, yeasts (wild or added), temperature of fermentation, storage, etc. to support a whole industry.
When I see a blend that says it contains Virginias, Orientals, Cavendish and Latakia, I may want to try it since I like English blends, but the range of tastes even within that category astonishes me.
Nonetheless, there are differences enough due to location of the vineyard, skill of the winemaker, year of vintage, yeasts (wild or added), temperature of fermentation, storage, etc. to support a whole industry.
When I see a blend that says it contains Virginias, Orientals, Cavendish and Latakia, I may want to try it since I like English blends, but the range of tastes even within that category astonishes me.
