How have you guys handled insurance?

[PiperCalvinist]

I'm having to renew my health insurance this year, and they ask about tobacco use, and it's simply a YES or NO answer, and there are no qualifiers such as - type, frequency, etc. If I simply select YES my insurance rate almost DOUBLES!?! What bothers me about that simple question is I know what they are concerned about, and rightly so. The 1-2 pack a day cigarette smoking guy, who GREATLY increases their risk in insuring him. However, I am a far cry from that. I average one bowl a day. It isn't fair that none of that seems to matter.
I realize a likely response I'm going to get here is LIE about it. However, that's a conscience issue I'm not interested in compromising. So my attempt here in raising this question is simply to hear feedback from the pipe smoking community at-large on how you all have dealt with this issue. Perhaps there is something I have not rightly considered? Or perhaps there certain insurance companies that are more smoker friendly? Or am I just screwed, and need to bite the bullet? Thank you!

 

[VDL_Piper]

Not sure how long nicotine stays in the blood but it would be a bugger to need your insurance and they do a simple blood test and your policy is void because of nicotine, guess you could say you use patches

 

[warren]

Choosing to smoke means you are , pure and simple, a taker of risks. Choices and actions have consequences. I suggest you perform your due diligence and, in depth, check the insurance market. Fairness doesn't enter into the equation, you chose to smoke, it's all on you, the insurance provider. You want to buy their product and they'd be glad to have you as a customer. But, in your case you don't want their product at their price. Study the market is the only advice I can offer. Hopefully, cheaper will also provide good service. Not always the case.

 

[Briar Lee]

I'm having to renew my health insurance this year, and they ask about tobacco use, and it's simply a YES or NO answer, and there are no qualifiers such as - type, frequency, etc. If I simply select YES my insurance rate almost DOUBLES!?! What bothers me about that simple question is I know what they are concerned about, and rightly so. The 1-2 pack a day cigarette smoking guy, who GREATLY increases their risk in insuring him. However, I am a far cry from that. I average one bowl a day. It isn't fair that none of that seems to matter.
I realize a likely response I'm going to get here is LIE about it. However, that's a conscience issue I'm not interested in compromising. So my attempt here in raising this question is simply to hear feedback from the pipe smoking community at-large on how you all have dealt with this issue. Perhaps there is something I have not rightly considered? Or perhaps there certain insurance companies that are more smoker friendly? Or am I just screwed, and need to bite the bullet? Thank you!

Turn 65 and get Medicare!

You can smoke and drink, skydive and chase wild women all you want!

Of course you won’t be able to, nearly as much.:

Seriously, a minute.

If you get caught lying on the form it can be bad, very bad.

The government appears poised to crack down on medical costs in every possible way, and allow private companies to do the same.

 

[telescopes]

Quit today. Wait a day or two and fill out the form. Do you smoke? The answer is No. You quit. Now, if you take up smoking later in the month, well, the form never asked if you intend to take up smoking later. Simple questions deserve simple answers. Be serious when you quit. And answer honestly. Do you smoke? Nope. If the question is in present tense, the answer needs to be in present tense as well. Am I missing something?

 

[Chasing Embers]

I realize a likely response I'm going to get here is LIE about it.

Why lie?

 

[telescopes]

The issue is you are wanting to play fair with what is tantamount to the mob. There is no fairness to be found here. I think the information presented by Embers shows some of the challenges. Whose definitions, when, where, etc. Nothing is clear and that is by design, not accident. Look, you do what you want and think is right. Honestly, and I mean that as a pun, it doesn't matter. The insurance companies will do as they see fit and believe is right.

 

[warren]

Insurance companies are in the business of ... business. They have folks invested in them expecting a return on the investment. If you belong to a retirement plan you are probably an investor and should be pulling for them to make tons of profit. These companies sell a commodity and it's your choice to buy.

One can simply save money by dropping a luxury, smoking, and putting the savings to work. It's a choice we all make. Some here simply do not like the consequences of their choice. Tough! Either improve your value as an employee, make more money or quit smoking. Should be an easy choice for most.

 

[Zamora]

Why lie?
View attachment 363145

Well that's an honest no for me for the federal definition, thought that will become a yes when Spring comes

 

[lraisch]

Does the form also ask if you are going base jumping? How about sky diving, rock climbing, using scheduled drugs, smoking dope, racing motorcycles at the Isle of Man? How about the number of drinks you have per week.

I get it that some people see this as black or white. I wonder if any of them ever cross the street in other than a marked crosswalk or exceed the speed limit.

 

[Briar Lee]

War Story Time!

About thirty years ago, I had a pair of identical twin blonde young secretaries and we made house calls for those who couldn’t come to the office.

One of the twins came to me and said there’s a little old lady dying of COPD who wants a will, and we need to go there.

We did her will with her all hooked up to oxygen tubes and she brightened up at the sight of the young girls all fawning over her and looking at her photographs and it was just wonderful.

In those days long before the ACA there were predatory “health insurance” companies who preyed on the elderly.

Within three months, the old lady’s daughter made an appointment. She told us her mother had died in the hospital of COPD and she had taken out a health insurance policy from a traveling salesman, and her hospital bill was $50,000.

She showed me the policy.

I showed her, where her mother had checked she had no lung or heart problems.

Her mother was on 24/7 oxygen and dying on that day.

Then she showed me a letter from the insurance company refunding the premium.

She offered me half of the $50,000, and I sadly told her half of nothing, is nothing.

I hoped there was a hot place in hell reserved for the salesman, but his company isn’t bound by him trying to scam your mother.

If you read the fine print they only owed $100 a day for a maximum of $1,000. And that is paid only to the hospital, not you.

She asked, can I write them a demand letter?

I said you can, but they won’t pay.

A week later she came in the office flashing a check to her for fifty thousand dollars.

She said You’ve lost $25,000!

I said I’m not going to prison for insurance fraud, either.

I said let me see the check.

It was drawn on a certain bank, with a nearby branch.

I advised her to go to that bank, get a cashier’s check, and deposit it in her bank and not spend a dime until I told her.

Since she’d used my name in vain in her letter, I told the twins when the insurance company called, that they were to put them through immediately.

When the CEO called me, he explained they’d fired a secretary who handled claims and she’d paid every demand the company received during her notice period.

I replied he needed to take up any claim he had against his authorized claim agent.

She paid a lawful demand to avoid litigation.

He said what about the lady we paid?

I’ve not seen her since she left my office happy as a clam. She’s not too worried now about the crook that sold her mother the policy. Maybe she won’t turn you in to the Department of Insurance if you don’t pursue her.

He said, I hope she enjoys the money, and she did.


The twins asked if I was sorry I’d not taken the case.

My reply was, if they’d got a proper letter from a lawyer they’d have likely denied it.

I did get a good story from it, after all.

 

[Briar Lee]

Does the form also ask if you are going base jumping? How about sky diving, rock climbing, using scheduled drugs, smoking dope, racing motorcycles at the Isle of Man? How about the number of drinks you have per week.

I get it that some people see this as black or white. I wonder if any of them ever cross the street in other than a marked crosswalk or exceed the speed limit.

The boilerplate in those insurance contracts gives them the right to arbitration where you-will-be-sorry you didn’t tell the truth.

And you’ll find those lawyers who advertise on billboards won’t even schedule you an appointment.

Xxxxx

In 2023, the cost of healthcare in the United States was $4.9 trillion, or $14,570 per person. This was a 7.5% increase from 2022, which was faster than the previous two years. Here are some other details about healthcare spending in 2023:

• Share of GDP
  Healthcare spending accounted for 17.6% of the nation's Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
  
  
• Medicare
  Medicare spending increased 8.1% to $1,029.8 billion, which was 21% of total healthcare spending.
  
  
• Medicaid
  Medicaid spending increased 7.9% to $871.7 billion, which was 18% of total healthcare spending.
  
  
• Insured population
  The insured share of the population reached 92.5%.

Xxxxx

The rest of the wealthy world spends far less of their income on health care.

Because they treat it like police and fire protection, as a basic government service.

My question is, since we insure all us old geezers on Medicare for $172 a month, shouldn’t the younger folks be cheaper?

Guess what happens to us geezers?

It ain’t promising, you know?.

Eventually we’ll sort this out.

 

[warren]

As I've written before, many times, perhaps too many for some members, but insurance companies make their profit not through selling policies but through, hopefully, wise acquisitions. Stocks, businesses, property and such, dependent on their business model. They have a fiduciary (legal) responsibility to make moneys for their shareholders. If they don't they are subject to prosecution. Catering to people with risky habits is not good business so, the greater the risk the higher the fee. If you desire lower premiums ... quit the risky behavior. It is really that simple!

Crap! Somewhere in life one has to take responsibility for their behavior/choices. Well that used to be true but, this country has raised a bunch of whiners not willing to take responsibility for their behavior. There's a bunch of self-absorbed people here wanting their "entitlements". Such behavior would be hilarious if we, the taxpayers providing the so-called "entitlements", weren't footing the bill. Many want a "nanny" state to support their poor choices while decrying the "nanny" state's anti-tobacco position. Those folks really want it both ways. Those folks are simply unprepared to live life being self-responsible. That's a tragedy the rest of us pay for. You can't have a "collectivist" government unless you are willing to cede to government many of your "God given", per the US Constitution, rights. I'm not one of those obviously. But, it appears many are.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Lie to 'em... Same thing with your doctor. They can't handle the truth.

If you fail a test, just stand strong. Deny, deny, deny.

If anyone wants to write a three page diatribe about why I'm wrong, just go ahead. I ain't discussing it any further.

 

[PiperCalvinist]

Why lie?
View attachment 363145

Thank you, that’s helpful! I probably average 5-6 days a week, But I’m willing to make it 4 to save on insurance.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If you do lie, (or bend the truth) you had better not ever post pictures of yourself with a pipe or cigars in your social media posts. I have heard of insurance companies combing through these looking for reasons not to pay out. Nowadays, they can use AI to scan your entire online activity in the flash of an eye.

 

[PiperCalvinist]

Well that's an honest no for me for the federal definition, thought that will become a yes when Spring comes

Why lie?
View attachment 363145

Yea, I just discovered that in Texas “tobacco use” is defined as using ANY tobacco product 5 times in a 3 month period. That’s so absurd. So the 2pack a day guy gets lumped into the same category as the once a week pipe smoker.

 

[Chasing Embers]

So the 2pack a day guy gets lumped into the same category as the once a week pipe smoker.

No need to discriminate, it is tobacco use and it's their company.

 

[SBC]

Since the HHS defines tobacco use as four or more uses a week (over a six month period), and since I have a pipe only every other day (meaning that every other calendar week contains only 3 pipes, resulting in an average of 3.5 pipes a week), I always answer No with a clear conscience.

Now, as a variation on this in your case, if you've been averaging more pipes than that per week, just do the math on the number of weeks you need to go pipe-free before you bring your six-month average down below 4 per week.

For instance, if you've been smoking one pipe per day, then going 3 months without a pipe will bring your previous-6-month-average down below 4 per week. Then you could answer No in 3 months without any deception per the HHS definition.

ADDENDUM: I just saw your post about your state's definition. I am sorry. However, if I understand correctly, this means that you could smoke 4x in the next 3 months and then answer No (if you can push out your renewal 3 months).

 

[Briar Lee]

As I've written before, many times, perhaps too many for some members, but insurance companies make their profit not through selling policies but through, hopefully, wise acquisitions. Stocks, businesses, property and such, dependent on their business model. They have a fiduciary (legal) responsibility to make moneys for their shareholders. If they don't they are subject to prosecution. Catering to people with risky habits is not good business so, the greater the risk the higher the fee. If you desire lower premiums ... quit the risky behavior. It is really that simple!

Crap! Somewhere in life one has to take responsibility for their behavior/choices. Well that used to be true but, this country has raised a bunch of whiners not willing to take responsibility for their behavior. There's a bunch of self-absorbed people here wanting their "entitlements". Such behavior would be hilarious if we, the taxpayers providing the so-called "entitlements", weren't footing the bill. Many want a "nanny" state to support their poor choices while decrying the "nanny" state's anti-tobacco position. Those folks really want it both ways. Those folks are simply unprepared to live life being self-responsible. That's a tragedy the rest of us pay for. You can't have a "collectivist" government unless you are willing to cede to government many of your "God given", per the US Constitution, rights. I'm not one of those obviously. But, it appears many are.

Medicare and Medicaid pick up about forty per cent of our outrageously inflated health care tab, and employers play insurance fairy for most of the rest.

For years I paid $20,000 a year for crappy health insurance with a 30,000 out of pocket cap so I wouldn’t lose my farm and law office if one of the six of us got sick.

Thank you sweet Jesus, the kids are grown and I’m retired on Medicare and my wife has a marketplace plan.

One of the reasons I retired was these last few years we could not keep legal assistants.

They’d quit for a lower paying job with health


The young man I sold my law office to has two kids and a wife that works for the state, for the insurance.

I’ve been a rugged individualist all my life, and my father and his father and his father before that.

My wife, in addition to her other ailments, has diabetes now.

If not for the ACA I could not buy her health insurance at any price.

And she goes to doctors so much no employer could hire her, to be her insurance fairy.

People say they want health care choice, but what they mean is they get to have all the healthcare they need and somebody else pay for it.

I realize that at 17% of our national product, this nation can’t afford to spend much more of that for health care, and that number is about the tax burden of the national government.

Health care is already rationed. The health insurance companies ration it.

When I go with my wife to see her doctors the parking lots and lobbies are full of the reminders of why my grandmother used to say everybody over fifty should be shot.

My mother would say, but (my father) Bruce is over fifty, and she’d say not Bruce, just all the rest of us.

We have built a wonderful health care system nobody in the world can write a check to pay for as you leave.

I realize that was built on health insurance and the gubbermint paying the tab.

But if all Europe and England and her former colonies have figured out how to take care of their geezers and the lame, halt, sick and disabled, why can’t we?