High Quality Pipes and Fills

[maxpeters]

Fills. I hate fills. They do nothing but detract from the aesthetics of a pipe. I would not buy a pipe with fills for any price. One day people may find it necessary to tolerate fills in a pipe because of a severe briar shortage, or the inability to collect and process whatever brair there may be, but until that happens, I will avoid fills.

I have smoked pipes with fills though, and could not detect any difference in their smoking quality. It's just that I find them ugly, and indicative of cheap briar.

As for being able to hide a fill in a pipe, congradulations to that pipe maker, but if I knew that there was one in a pipe I was smoking, it would lessen the whole smoking experience for me. Maybe you're more tolerant than I am. It may not bother you.

But to me it would be like buying a new BMW but with a rust mark on the hood the size of a silver dollar. The car would still drive well, but it would bother me to no end. Fills. Did I mention that hate fills?

 

[peckinpahhombre]

This thread was interesting if for no reason other than it shows what wildly different views people have as to price ranges for low, medium, and high end pipes.

 

[northernneil]

Today, pipes are produced in much smaller numbers and I cannot help but think that more attention to detail is paid today with lower production.

Completely and utterly incorrect.

Here is a paragraph from a article written by GL Pease which helped me form my opinion. So not completely and utterly incorrect.

These old pipes aren’t necessarilly better than the new ones. In fact, many that I own are characterized by less than optimal smoking characteristics. It’s likely, in fact, that the pipes made by today’s best pipesmiths are the finest that have ever been made. None of the old marques could rival the precision in construction that is obtained even in many of the mid-grades available now. Too, today’s best pipe makers seem to care more about seasoning briar, about getting the most out of a block, about making pipes that will deliver the finest smoking experience possible. Despite the many durges played for the brands that have gone the way of all flesh, we live in a time when truly fantastic pipes can be had. There seems to be plenty of great briar available, though we often hear otherwise, and more and more pipes are produced by single craftsmen who take the process from briar selection to final finishing very seriously, putting their very names on the line with each pipe they make. Yesterday’s pipes were probably much less consistent, with the result that the truly bad ones became, at some point, yesterday’s firewood. It’s probable that only the better ones have survived the decades and the scrutiny of critical smokers, but this, of course, is just speculation on my part.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

7 or 8 digit income ( peck for example )

Now, that is amusing. Do the number of digits include the two digits to the right of the period?
I wasn't suggesting that price equates with quality, and I don't think the others were either.
I think we were trying to rough out some price categories for new pipes that equate with our expectations for that pipe in terms of the quality of its briar and the pipe's engineering and craftsmanship.
Of course, you can get a great pipe in a lower price category and you can get a dog in a higher price category.

 

[warren]

I do like that Mr. Pease qualifies his writing as speculation.
His musings raise the question of why do so many pipe smokers retain pipes which they find are less than stellar performers? I ask this strictly from curiosity. Is there a hope that pipe will improve with age? That the owner will become less critical with age? The answer completely eludes me. I wouldn't keep a poorly performing truck or an ill fitting pair of boots. Why are poorly performing pipes retained if they do not perform in a satisfactory manner? It's akin to carrying a poor performing pistol for personal protection.
Of course, I do understand emotional attachment. I have two pipe which are poor smokers. Both were gifts and hold special meaning to me. They haven't been smoked in many years and I do not really consider them as part of my collection of pipes. These days they are both simply around because of the memories they evoke.

 

[gloucesterman]

Under $100.00 I expect to find "putty fills". From $100.00 - $300.00, there may be, but less likely are they easily visible. $300.00 to $500.00, I expect they are so well done that I'll never find them. Above $500.00 I expect clean wood

.

I'd

 

[gloucesterman]

Under $100.00 I expect to find "putty fills". From $100.00 - $300.00, there may be, but less likely are they easily visible. $300.00 to $500.00, I expect they are so well done that I'll never find them. Above $500.00 I expect clean wood

.

I'd say that mirrors my view. For someone usually buying in the $500 + bracket there is a pretty low tolerance for fills, and justifiably so. For those whose purchases usually don't rise to that level, we're more tolerant of a fill. Prices and grades are all over the place but there are two things for sure, first, less expensive are more likely to have a fill or two. As you go up in price there should be an expectation that the skill of the carver makes them less and less apparent. Secondly, if your looking for fill free pipes you must usually confine your purchases to the high end market and even then you need to be vigilant. There are exceptions to the rule but they're just that, exceptions.

 

[sablebrush52]

And the debate goes on.

Here is a paragraph from a article written by GL Pease which helped me form my opinion. So not completely and utterly incorrect.

Still utterly incorrect, Pease or no Pease, Pease in a Pod, or Pease Porridge hot. Artisan makers are concerned about the uptick in crappy pipes being turned out by shapers cashing in on the heedless infatuation with auteurs. Crap can be found anywhere, anywhen and all price points. So can good product be found in all eras. Any blanket statements that all products from a particular time are inherently inferior or superior are pure pooh.
Pease isn't saying that new pipes are inherently better than old ones, or vice versa. He's saying that we live in a time where "truly fantastic pipes can be had". He's saying is that old pipes are not necessarily better, nor is the old briar. And there are others who disagree. Personally I think that he's correct.
Your statement:

I have never understood why people believe that pipes were so much better in the 30's, 40's and 50's. As I understand it, pipes during that time were mass produced in the tens of thousands, and they more than likely did not have the time to let the briar properly cure and dry.

differs from Pease. And remains utterly incorrect.

 

[northernneil]

Sablebrush, I think we are arguing similar points here. The quote of mine you highlighted is me pointing out that the blanket belief that old pipes are better than new pipes is not necessarily true. There were good and bad pipes made back in the day just like there are good and bad pipes today. Great deals can be found on the estate market just as good pipes can be found the new productions.
So again, "utterly incorrect" might be a little extreme.

 

[maxx]

Is rustication a method of avoiding fills? I'm supposing it is. If it is, why would a maker not simply rusticate instead of fill and sell the pipe with a smooth finish? Is this what Dunhill, for example, does: rusticate the flawed briar?

 

[pitchfork]

Why use fills? It's cheaper and faster than any other method. Plus, attitudes have changed. Moreover, many pipe buyers are niche hobbyists (like most of us) who are much more finicky about such things. Not many "artisan" makers, that I'm aware of, use putty fills anymore. Large factories, like Grabow or Stanwell, still do, however. And Peterson. :mrgreen:

 

[daveinlax]

Do the guys who buy these pipes directly from the carvers ever ask if they treat sand specks in any way or do they just assume it's clean wood?

After the fill controversy of a few years ago I have a hard time believing that all the smooth pipes I see offered aren't getting a little help after I've grown up in the hobby hearing how rare it is to find a clean block and uber rare it is to find one that has great looking grain. 8O

 

[sablebrush52]

Is rustication a method of avoiding fills? I'm supposing it is. If it is, why would a maker not simply rusticate instead of fill and sell the pipe with a smooth finish? Is this what Dunhill, for example, does: rusticate the flawed briar?

Rustication and sandblasting happen for more than one reason. Salvaging a pipe that has flaws too serious to carve out or fill is one of them. A top tier maker who shuns fills and produces flawless smooths is going to burn through a lot of stock unless it is either rusticated, sandblasted, or downstreamed. Factories had the ability to downstream lesser quality briar to their lines of seconds, thirds, and even fourths, as did Comoy and Sasieni. Artisans don't have that facility.
Among the other reasons for rustication or sandblasting are appreciation for the look of rustication or sandblast, and/or the attempt to bring visual interest to a pipe with uninteresting grain.

 

[gloucesterman]

One size doesn't fit all here. There are a number of reasons an artist may choose to rusticate or blast a pipe. What seems important to me is at what level of pricing should a buyer be able to assume he (or she) is getting an unblemished pipe. What's becoming clear is that there is no clear standard we can depend on for a whole host of valid reasons. So if that the case how can the buyer assure himself his expectations are met? In the end it seems it's the integrity of the carver not the price that matters. But then again who is to say the a brilliantly executed blast with a hidden flaw isn't worth its price. Flaws are the consequence of brier being grown not manufactured. Flaws happen and no one can predict which piece of brier will have one. Some can find ways to overcome them and in the end that's what seems more important. It might be re-carving or it might applying a finish that makes it invisible or it might be to downstream the stummel but in the end it should be about the pipe and its artistic qualities, not about some imperfection nature imposed on the carver. How he handles that challenge would seem far more important in determining the value of his work. Personally I think it only matters in a smooth pipe where the imperfection would be obvious. An artist who can overcome what nature has dealt him is a craftsman worthy of my admiration. For those that value perfection, I take no issue. Search out and acquire those pieces but don't belittle the work of a craftsman that makes the best of what nature has provided. That in my estimation is real art.

 

[cigrmaster]

I only worry about fills on a smooth pipe, never a sandblasted one. I have no problems with a couple of tiny sand pits on a 200.00 smooth pipe, but would return a pipe with fills at that price point and over. Putty fills on high end pipes are an abomination and no one should put up with it.
What pisses me off more than fills are these new carvers( artisan is not a deserving word for these people) who try to use plateau to save a pipe. It is one thing to have the entire top a plateau style but then they use it in weird places on the pipe, that tells me the carver is trying to save a block that has great grain on 90% of the pipe. There is a term the Japaense carvers came up with describing this style( I forget what it is) but I absolutely hate that look and would never by a pipe with it. Having a piece of plateau on the side of a pipe or on the rim is just plain wrong to me. I know some guys like it but I am not one of them.
Sabble, everyone knows that you cannot find a decent smoking pipe that was not made until 1995 or after. :nana:

 

[daveinlax]

I have no problems with a couple of tiny sand pits on a 200.00 smooth pipe, but would return a pipe with fills at that price point and over. Putty fills on high end pipes are an abomination and no one should put up with it.

Putty has never been the issue it's the undisclosed treated specks in smooth pipes that started the firestorm years ago. If these fills or what ever they call them show up it's not until the pipe has been heavily smoked and most carvers know that not many pipes get that kind of heavy use these days. 8O

 

[pitchfork]

Dave, was it true about Bo Nordh "smoothing" out some tiny specks here and there with superglue or something similar? I wasn't a collector back then and there's only scanty information online (at least that I could find).

 

[pitchfork]

What pisses me off more than fills are these new carvers( artisan is not a deserving word for these people) who try to use plateau to save a pipe. It is one thing to have the entire top a plateau style but then they use it in weird places on the pipe, that tells me the carver is trying to save a block that has great grain on 90% of the pipe.

Harris, you'll love this one, then. LOL Made by "up-and-coming" pipemaker, Andrew Marks.

 

[xrundog]

It's easy to find old pipes without fills. So when I get one that has a small fill or two, I generally get rid of it.

New artisan pipes seem to not have fills as well. The ones I've bought don't have them so that's my expectation.

I don't dabble much in newer machine made pipes. But I did buy a Pete Mark Twain with a silver band that had several large fills. So I sold it fully disclosing the flaws. I got a good price for it. I later bought another MT with the same result. Nice pipes generally, but those fills turn me off. It seems to be pretty much expected and accepted that high end Petes (except maybe the gold banded MT) will have fills. If you know that and don't care, that's your business. If the pipe is new, you really have to know what you are looking for to see them. They are well blended and the finish covers them. A pipe that's a bit older will show the fills as they color differently than the body of the pipe. A fill may color darker, lighter or even pink. I don't want to pay a considerable sum for a pipe and have my eye drawn to fills as I'm smoking it.

My solution is to stay away from brands of pipes I know might have fills. There are plenty of choices. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

 

[cigrmaster]

pitch, that is exactly what I am talking about and damn do I hate that look. It is such an eyesore and people who do that are blasphemers. I honestly cross off anyone from my list of makers who do that crap.
Here is another example of that swill.

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/japan/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=168662