Here, Kitty Kitty

[woodsroad]

One of the most dangerous things reported and suggested by news journalists is bear spray is better than firearms. Most reports dont even suggest firearms.
In my experience, which is not extensive, but I did conduct 19 necropsies on bears who attacked humans which ended in death in coastal Alaska. And I spent several years living in, and working in remote Alaska. I know a LOT of native Alaskans, hunting guides, and residents in rural Alaska.
Here is the thing about bear spray. It CAN be effective against nosey bears. But in my experience, its bears 11, humans 0 when it comes to attacking brown bears. I inspected 11 brown bears which were covered in bear spray, and every one of them ended up killing the sprayer. Firearms are MUCH more effective. Ive talked to many people who successfully defended themselves from attacking brown bears with firearms. Even one guy who killed a 900 pound bear with ONE hollow point 9mm round....that is like winning the lottery.
Bear spray works good on nosey park bears. But spray doesn't even slow down an angry bush bear.
I have a picture somewhere of a can of bear spray that was chewed up by a bear, its very ironic.
Ive seen people get killed because of bear spray too. People who had a capable firearm on them, but CHOSE to use spray instead.
You'll never catch me in bear country without my Glock 20 at least.
When camping or working in bear country, I have The glock 20 and a 12 gauge shotgun at minimum. I'll usually have a hunting rifle too.

Pipe forum for medical advice: No
Pipe forum for bear defense advice: 200%

 

[Sig]

The fact that wind could blow the spray off target or back on the user makes it a non starter. Never mind the other disadvantages.

Great point.
Unfortunately the data is scarce due to not many living through bear ATTACKS while using bear spray.
Again, spray can be great in some circumstances. I have friends who have successfully turned a nosey bear away with spray.
But when that 900 pound Bruin is coming at you 35mph, from 15 yards away with blood shot red rage eyes....your spray gonna end up bear poop. With my glock 20 in a chest rig, I have a 1 second draw to fire. I just hope I have that 1 second....many dont. A LOT of people have been killed by bears while carrying a hunting rifle, a powerful handgun, and a capable knife. Timing and circumstances can mean life or death.
This is why hunters are more likely to be attacked by brown bears than hikers. Hikers know to wear bear bells, or walk and talk loudly. While hunters creep through Alder brush trying to be quiet. A surprised bear can be more dangerous than a sow with cubs.

 

[romaso]

Even one guy who killed a 900 pound bear with ONE hollow point 9mm round....that is like winning the lottery.

Check these out, bear defense with .22 LR! (Note: Don't try this at home!)

Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More

On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake. She was 63 years old.

www.ammoland.com

Bear Attacks & 20 Instances of .22 Rimfire Used for Survival

The .22 rimfire caliber is often underestimated. I has the power to consistently kill large animals. Here are 20 incidents where .22 rimfire firearms were used against bears.

www.ammoland.com

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

The lions in much of California are MUCH more dangerous than lions in other states. Its kinda like when urban white tail deer lose their fear of humans and come within yards of people. Deer is the "wild" disappear in a snorting rage at the mear sight of a human.
The urban California lions become dangerous when they lose their fear of humans. I know people in California who have seen lions on many occasions. I also know hard core hunters in Montana who have never seen a lion. And Montana has more lions per square mile in many areas. I've seen a few because I was looking for them. It can take a week to find a lion in Montana when looking very hard. And sometimes when getting out of the truck at the search area, boom, there's a lion in the parking lot. Bears and wolves are much easier to locate, they are predictable, lions are very unpredictable.

Theres a huge issue with them in Washington state as well as urban sprawl encroaches on their natural habitats. In 2017 two mountain bikers were attacked by a mountain lion and one of them died. They didn't see it until it attacked.

 

[romaso]

Theres a huge issue with them in Washington state as well as urban sprawl encroaches on their natural habitats. In 2017 two mountain bikers were attacked by a mountain lion and one of them died. They didn't see it until it attacked.

Didn't they release grizzlies in the northern part of WA to repopulate?

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

Didn't they release grizzlies in the northern part of WA to repopulate?

Im not sure as i only live out there for a couple years.

 

[anotherbob]

Mountain Lions are very nosey. Even if eating or cubs aren't on their mind, they sometimes follow people.
Ive been followed a couple times, once in the dark while looking for a friends camp. If it wanted to attack, it had plenty of chances.

I've had lots of wild animals do that. From smaller guys like that Juvenile Porcupine that would slink off when I looked at it then a few minutes later, to things a little hairier.

The odds of being attacked by a cat you see is very low. Its the ones you dont see that you need to worry about.

Seems like a lot of times it's a younger one that attacks, because teenagers are stupid no matter the species.

The VAST majority of people attacked by lions say they didnt see it until it was on them. Even with cubs, lions are much less inclined to attack than bears. While living in the bush we learned that if you see a bear cub, take immediate action to protect yourself. This means get to an open area and draw your weapon of choice.

The one bear cub I saw was funny they're goofy. I thought it was developmentally challenged chocolate lab till I looked closer. Never saw the mom.

 

[romaso]

 

[Sig]

Check these out, bear defense with .22 LR! (Note: Don't try this at home!)

Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More

On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake. She was 63 years old.

www.ammoland.com

Bear Attacks & 20 Instances of .22 Rimfire Used for Survival

The .22 rimfire caliber is often underestimated. I has the power to consistently kill large animals. Here are 20 incidents where .22 rimfire firearms were used against bears.

www.ammoland.com

I would feel very under gunned with a 22lr while a 1000 pound bear was charging. But, as usual, shot placement is king.
With Buffalo Bore 200 grain hard cast, my glock 20 can penetrate deep enough to hit vitals almost anywhere on a bears body. 10mm has become the "go to" for many in brown bear country.
With 16 rounds of 10mm your odds are much better than with 6 rounds of 44 magnum or 454 Casull.
In most bear attacks you only have about 3 seconds or less. I can put 16 rounds of 10mm on an 8 inch target at 10 yards in under 5 seconds.
I can get 6 rounds of 44 mag in about 8 seconds....if im lucky.
With 10mm you can be much more accurate one handed too. That could be a lifesaver.
But heck, Tim Wells hunts big brownies with blow guns and spears.

 

[dd57chevy]

This video (only 10 seconds) is funny , kind of scary , but instructive . Note the bears reaction after the initial scare :

 

[Briarcutter]

This video (only 10 seconds) is funny , kind of scary , but instructive . Note the bears reaction after the initial scare :

AI

 

[Briarcutter]

I would feel very under gunned with a 22lr while a 1000 pound bear was charging. But, as usual, shot placement is king.
With Buffalo Bore 200 grain hard cast, my glock 20 can penetrate deep enough to hit vitals almost anywhere on a bears body. 10mm has become the "go to" for many in brown bear country.
With 16 rounds of 10mm your odds are much better than with 6 rounds of 44 magnum or 454 Casull.
In most bear attacks you only have about 3 seconds or less. I can put 16 rounds of 10mm on an 8 inch target at 10 yards in under 5 seconds.
I can get 6 rounds of 44 mag in about 8 seconds....if im lucky.
With 10mm you can be much more accurate one handed too. That could be a lifesaver.
But heck, Tim Wells hunts big brownies with blow guns and spears.

I'm assuming a 10mm and a .40 aren't even close In FP and FPS even though they have the same bullet diameter. Haven't looked it up but I'm assuming it's like a .38 and a .357.

 

[dd57chevy]

AI

Just curious , how can you tell ?

 

[Sig]

I'm assuming a 10mm and a .40 aren't even close In FP and FPS even though they have the same bullet diameter. Haven't looked it up but I'm assuming it's like a .38 and a .357.

Yes, properly loaded 10mm is much more powerful than 40 S&W.
You could say 10mm is like 40 S&W Magnum.
The Buffalo Bore ammo I carry in the woods is a bit over 740fpe.
Whereas 40 S&W is lucky to get much over 500fpe...most is under 400fpe.
Same projectile, but different powder load.
Some hand loaded 10mm rounds csn reach 1000fpe, which can rival 44 mag and small caliber rifles.
A company called RTBS used to make a 77 grain 10mm round with 2000fps and 1015fpe....but they were a bit much. Anything over 700fpe usually fragments. Thats why hard cast are the go to for high energy 10mm and 44 mag......and 454 Casull.
The big difference is recoil management and follow up shots.
Even the most badass revolver guys have trouble putting 6 rounds of 700+ fpe on target quickly. Whereas my tiny wife can put 16 rounds on target with 700+ fpe 10mm.
The shape of an auto loader and the action of the slide mitigate some of the recoil, allowing faster, more accurate follow up shots.
In my experience people are more successful with multiple shots on a charging animal than one or two accurate shots. Many times you're back peddling, or even on your butt.

 

[romaso]

FYI, the deadliest critter (to humans) in the US is the deer (mostly car crashes) and the deadliest in the world is the mosquito.

 

[Briarcutter]

Just curious , how can you tell ?

It's purely a guess. I've seen probably four other Halloween video like this, all with different animals, all freaking out at the noise,all the same porch. I'm just skeptical of videos now a days. Even that cat attacking the dog to protect the child video I'm skeptical of. They show other footage from another angle of the dog approaching then switch back to the original shot. could be they had security cameras at different angles then spliced them together but really, two security cameras on the driveway? Could be but with AI the rage today and people trying b to make money on YouTube hits, I'm just a skeptical old codger I guess Fun videos, I just don't believe them.

 

[Sig]

FYI, the deadliest critter (to humans) in the US is the deer (mostly car crashes) and the deadliest in the world is the mosquito.

I'd MUCH prefer meeting a 1000 pound brown bear in the woods than a mama moose. Ive known moose to b-line across a 200 yard meadow to confront a human.
Bears never do that. Even sows with new cubs won't go to far out of their way to neutralize you.
Moose can be extremely dangerous. They cause many more injuries to humans than all bears combined.

 

[Briarcutter]

They cause many more injuries to humans than all bears combined

You're just a treasure trove of info Sig. I had no idea a moose was that dangerous. How big do they get? I knew hitting them in a car was a bad idea but for them to attack a human blows my mind. But then, we don't see many here in OhioThanks for the info. Changes my whole perception of Bullwinkle!

 

[ziv]

Just curious , how can you tell ?

 

[romaso]

I'd MUCH prefer meeting a 1000 pound brown bear in the woods than a mama moose. Ive known moose to b-line across a 200 yard meadow to confront a human.
Bears never do that. Even sows with new cubs won't go to far out of their way to neutralize you.
Moose can be extremely dangerous. They cause many more injuries to humans than all bears combined.

I was hiking in Wyoming as a youngun and met a moose on the trail. I quickly moved OFF the trail and kept a big tree between us. He sauntered by and I swear he was smiling and chuckling to himself. His head was as big as I was (I was skinny then, tho).