Help Me Understand Pipe Prices

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techie

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 20, 2018
589
10
...the probability of getting a better smoke rises tremendously when choosing a carefully hand made pipe featuring the best possible briar from a talented individual pipe maker who takes many hours of painstaking care with the briar right up through the comfortable handmade stem ...
So having made that statement, can you elaborate? I mean, in what practical ways is it different, for instance, in the taste of the tobacco? I understand fit and finish will be much finer, but is it making the primary objective of smoking tobacco noticeably better?
I'm asking as a beginner wanting to simply understand. I do know, from experience, that a wine or whisky can smell and taste different depending on the glassware shape and size used. Is it similar with the pipe and tobacco?

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,783
45,392
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I partially agree with Steve's statement to the extent that properly cured briar is a must and that a very comfortable well designed stem adds to the experience. One of the things I like about my Barling pipes is the wonderfully comfortable wide thin flat stem. They used high grade para rubber. They carved a deep V in the end of the stem, accompanied by a wide slot, to spread out the smoke so you get more of the flavors and less concentration on a point of one's tongue. It's thoughtful practical design. These stems were hand carved.
I don't agree that machine made pipes are inherently inferior. To some degree, all pipes are at least partially machine made. But if the drilling is haphazard and the fit along the airway isn't finished out, the pipe won't perform as well, regardless of its being hand or machine made. Stanwell made some very good pipes and they were largely machine made. Dunhill turned to more machine made work in the late 1960's.
But better materials and more careful construction increase the odds of a better functioning pipe. And that costs more.

 

pipestud

Lifer
Dec 6, 2012
2,010
1,750
Robinson, TX.
So having made that statement, can you elaborate? I mean, in what practical ways is it different, for instance, in the taste of the tobacco? I understand fit and finish will be much finer, but is it making the primary objective of smoking tobacco noticeably better?-techie
Yes sir, I absolutely believe that (for me), the "primary objective" of the overall smoking experience is noticeably better when I am smoking a pipe by a noted and respected pipe maker as opposed to a run of the mill machine made where the factory spits out dozens by the hour. Part of the overall experience for a better smoking pipe includes the quality of the wood, the drilling and the comfort of the stem. I have several machine made pipes (and admittedly a few hand mades), for example, that deliver the taste of the tobacco wonderfully, but I don't reach for them much because the stems are uncomfortable and clunky, which detracts from the overall smoking experience. I can't begin to count the times over the years that I've had newer pipe smokers express a new level of joy when they made the leap from a "basket pipe" to a quality hand made from an individual pipe maker. And, the overall fit/finish of the pipe, the comfort of the stem and the appreciation for the beauty of the pipe are all taken into consideration.
Again, I am not saying that a hand made, higher priced pipe is always going to provide a better smoke. As I said in my earlier post - " Can you luck into a machine made $30 Dr. Grabow smoking as well as a $300 handmade by a well respected pipe maker? Of course. But, the odds are not with you." I am not trying to be an elitist. I am just offering a personal opinion based on my own personal experience. I get as much pleasure seeing my fellow pipe smokers enjoying their cobs filled with Prince Albert as I do seeing others getting great pleasure out of smoking an expensive S. Bang filled with Balkan Sobranie 759. What a person smokes - pipes and tobaccos - is their preference and of no importance to me.

 
May 3, 2010
6,445
1,500
Las Vegas, NV
IMHO, I think people should go for less quantity and more quality. Most have a certain amount they can afford to spend TOTAL. If that's a $1,000, I'd recommend you buy 4 or 5 at $200 to $250 instead of 10 @ $100.
This! 100% this!
I have about 2 bowls a day and have come to realize I could do perfectly fine with 12-24 pipes max. At one point I had about 40 pipes roughly all around the $100 range so I'd spent about $4,000 total. If I had scaled back to 12 pipes then I could have spent $333.33 per pipe and could have more nicer artisan pipes than I do now. That's what I'm in the process of doing now. I recently turned in 9 of those pipes for store credit to SmokingPipes #ShamelessPlug and used that to pick up a really nice Sam Adebayo sandblasted Lovat that's absolutely incredible.

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
Techie, while there are some very thoughtful posts in this thread I don’t believe anyone has directly answered your question. The difference between a $70 Savinelli 320 and a $200 version is the finish alone. However, your broader question really can’t be answered generally because unlike the Savinelli 320 which follows a formula, artisan pipemakers generally follow themes but not rules.
For example, modern American pipe makers generally try to make stems that fall within a specific range of width and depth, drill airways to 4mm, most use ebonite for stems, chamfer tenons, use bowl coatings and source briar from the same shop in Italy. All of this represents a little objectivity and forms a baseline expectation of what you should be getting for your hard earned cash. Not all NA carvers follow these guidelines but most do, and this is the foundation that new carvers learn to distinguish their product from the mass marketed stuff.
Alright, so...you’ve got 300 bux, you pick out a artisan pipe that follows the guidelines, all you need to do now is click the buy button and wait for nirvana to land in your lap, right? Right...?
Aww hell nah. Not if you’re gonna smoke it, that is.
There is no way to determine how well a given block of briar will perform until it’s smoked. The single greatest predictor of smoking quality (huge IMHO) is how long a block has seasoned prior to carving. All a pipemaker can do is buy briar from a reputable cutter and age it prior to carving. And here is the greatest information black hole in pipemaking, but particularly amongst NA modern pipe makers.
What’s the problem? Well, most pipe makers age blocks for less than a year after receiving them from the briar cutter (where they are aged 2 or 3 years, generally) because they need to carve, understandibly, to put food on the table. So, very few can afford to season blocks and fewer still report any information about this on their own website let alone on a second party web-store. For example, take a peek at a bio page for any of the new carvers that have debuted on spc within the last two years and try to find a single objective detail that relates to the briar cure or really, anything about the materials or construction quality.
Alright, so what’s the point? Well with regard to modern NA carvers what you pay for is refinement and appearance.
Ok, so how does that compare to your $70 Savinelli 320 (my favorite of their shapes)? Well, unlike your artisan, Savinelli has the resources to stockpile literally tons of briar which they can season properly prior to carving. Unlike your artisan pipe they can offer competitive briar quality but without an artisans refinement.
Let’s take a quick peek at what lays in between the artisan and the mega factory, what I call the pipe workshop. These are places that utilize multiple carvers to produce pipes under a banner, like Castello, for example. Like Savinelli, Castello has the resources to sit on a mountain of briar, but they add a strict aging protocol to ensure every block is well seasoned prior to carving. There is no rolling the dice. Like an artisan, stems are hand cut and bowls are hand carved. However, these pipes (like most Italian pipes) don’t conform to the NA pipemakers theme.
And finally, a curveball.....what happens if you take that theme above and adapt it to a pipeworkshop that use sophisticated machines to carve the bowls? Well, you get briarworks. In the early days they used the same briar as the artisan carvers but have switched things up due to demand, and of course they use acrylic stems.
So a bit less refinement than artisan, more than a factory and briar that is as good as an artisan, but a broader pool to draw from.
Phew...well, all imho. Many may find this conspiratorial, or whatever...but hey, these are the things that direct my purchases today based on what I’ve picked up and come to value through many purchased pipes.
I’ll add one final point, the age of a briar burl and the duration of seasoning used to be a selling point of pipes in the golden age. Factories at the time also hand carved or hand finished stems and valued comfort. I think that modern pipes are still trying to reach the level of achievement of the past pipemakers in some sense, at least.

 

cwpiperman

Can't Leave
Jun 15, 2018
382
2,434
@Bigpond That was a wonderful post, and really was informative to this n00b.
Thanks!
CW

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
pipestud, I wouldn't deny the case you make for the finer pipes in life. I have a few up-market pipes, and appreciate them. I guess I'm empathizing with those who enjoy their pipes but can't/shouldn't spend a lot on them. My point is, I think the "membership fees" here shouldn't be high. Can you afford some of those exquisite artisan pipe? Great!
On the briar aging point, is it true that the briar in a completed pipe continues to age to advantage? So my forty-year-old Chacom gets extra points for having decades of time on the briar? Maybe I shouldn't say this and drive up the market price of estate pipes. Hmmm.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,783
45,392
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
@Bigpond - Excellent post! I'll add that not all NA carvers follow the same path. Some of the older, more established carvers, like Lee Von Erck and Trever Talbert, do things differently. Lee developed his own oil curing process and his pipes smoke sweet. Trever's Ligne Bretagne pipes are made from very old stummels that have had many years of seasoning before finishing, so they're very stable.
Your comments about the old factory made pipes is spot on. The best of them were made from the finest quality briar, picked by people who know what they were looking for, aged properly, and fashioned by expert carvers. I do love my old Britwood. Nobody beats it. Few equal it.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
Here's some "Deep Thought" on pipe pricing (remember the old SNL bit by Al Franken?). I don't want to be Mary Poppins on this one. I think pipe smoking, by one paradigm, can be seen as two separate activities, often overlapping. One is aspirational, where the pipe smoker is on a quest for an ultimate primo pipe smoking experience which involves seeking the holy grail pipe and the unicorn rarest blend. Some bit of this infects us all and makes pipe smoking exciting and neverending as a quest. The other aspect of pipe smoking is meditative and is more of a mental experience. The pipe and leaf are important, but as a means to an interior experience. This can be on top of the aspirational endeavor, or it may stand alone. The meditative part can be done with basic pipe and leaf. Either path works, or both work. Okay, now you've all been to the heights of my philosophical thought. No one needs a parachute to descend from here.

 

techie

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 20, 2018
589
10
I appreciate all the comments. Lots of great info to digest, reflect upon, and guide my pipe smoking journey.
I will say that the four pipes I have purchased thus far were acquired with very little of the knowledge and experience shared here - I just bought what appealed to me aesthetically. Now that it's been several weeks and I've looked online at hundreds, if not thousands of pipes in all price brackets, my initial purchases may have been different. I have no qualms about spending $300 for a pipe instead of on three $100 pipes, I just wanted to understand why I should do that.
I have come to find that a $300 Scotch isn't necessarily better than a $80 Scotch. I know the reasons why that is. Wanted to know if it's the same in the pipe world.

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,448
109,401
Technique is often hugely underrated. I can get the same smoke from a cob as a Dunhill. You can have the "best" pipe in the world and get a horrible smoke if not prepared and smoked correctly.

 

techie

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 20, 2018
589
10
As a side note: Chasing Embers, being Captain of the Black Frigate, I picked up a tin of Black Frigate this morning. Looking forward to trying this one.

 

jaytex1969

Lifer
Jun 6, 2017
9,520
50,598
Here
Very informative thread.
So, does "post carving" age add to quality or strictly aging prior to production.
Would a pipe carved from briar aged 50 years smoke similarly to one carved after 10 years aging and bought as an unsmoked estate 40 years later?
jay-roger.jpg


 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,783
45,392
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
So, does "post carving" age add to quality or strictly aging prior to production.
Would a pipe carved from briar aged 50 years smoke similarly to one carved after 10 years aging and bought as an unsmoked estate 40 years later?
Briar is harvested at an age when it's considered good for the making of pipes, with sufficient capillary structure. IIRC, most of it is harvested at between 35+ and 50+ years of age. Barling aficionados love to claim that they used 100+ and older wood, but that's not exactly the case as their copy from the 1920's says approximately 60 years of age. Their later copy from the 1960's states 80 to 120 years of age. So, the basic quality is set in the ground, and realized by the processing the burls get after harvesting.
A 50 year old unsmoked pipe made from 40 year old briar isn't going to become 90 year old briar. The age is determined by the time in the ground.

 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,052
14,668
The Arm of Orion
The soil where the briar grew plays a role too, as do conditions. One carver/manufacturer once reported that briar that has gone through more 'hardship' yields better pipes.

 
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