I guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Bad pictures, bad description......Maybe should have asked for better ones?? I have bought a lot of pipes on eBay over the years, and I have found there are way more scammer buyers than sellers (NOT SAYING YOU ARE ONE, SO DON'T TAKE THAT WRONG WAY) But I have also sold hundreds of pipes there, and never fails I always have at least one person try to scam something. So I don't do returns either. I know everyone loves those original stems, But if it were me You have a great bowl at a great price, have a new stem made from Walker.
HELP! Ebay Conundrum With A Dunhill
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Dr Watson, before I bought the pipe, I did ask if there were any cracks, dents, or anything wrong with the pipe. He told me it looked like it just needed a good cleaning and it would be fine. I bet there are a lot of unwholesome buyers, and sellers have to be careful. I think in this case though, due to my question before buying, and the seller's response, I ought to be okay in my complaint.
I'd have to see the ad pictures and description to make that determination. Some sellers don't even offer descriptions, just measurements and pictures.
Here's the ad. No offense, I don't think the seller misrepresented that pipe in any way. You might be able to force him to take it back, but he listed nothing erroneous in the description and the picture clearly shows the issue of concern. I'd take my lumps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunhill-034-Russet-034-smoking-pipe-/232257021221?hash=item361398e525%3Ag%3Af5EAAOSw4A5YtuoZ&nma=true&si=S5tnzZafBlkNuHgh7wIfEJ3I06U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunhill-034-Russet-034-smoking-pipe-/232257021221?hash=item361398e525%3Ag%3Af5EAAOSw4A5YtuoZ&nma=true&si=S5tnzZafBlkNuHgh7wIfEJ3I06U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
No offense taken, ssjones. I appreciate and consider all opinions. I don't want to be in the wrong.
The picture that shows a size discrepancy between the shank and stem, to me, seemed like the stem was just "out of turn," as I have a few pipes that, if the alignment isn't correct, the stems don't meet up. I'm starting to consider just forgetting the return, as I seem to be causing the seller a huge amount of stress.
The picture that shows a size discrepancy between the shank and stem, to me, seemed like the stem was just "out of turn," as I have a few pipes that, if the alignment isn't correct, the stems don't meet up. I'm starting to consider just forgetting the return, as I seem to be causing the seller a huge amount of stress.
I suppose I could clean it up, get it ready to smoke, and try and sell it myself, noting the stem discrepancy and at least hope that way to make most of my money back...?
Well, I will say it again, while Al is quite right, the stem matter was a sin of omission; it wasn't what he said but rather what he didn't say. Since the seller communicated the matter of the pipe coming from a collection and the problem being that if he only still had other Dunhills, he could exchange stems for a more proper fitting one, the seller has acknowledged the problem. The seller might have been more forthright in stating this up front. I find it highly unlikely that is how Dunhill sold the pipe.
So OTOH, the picture shows the mal-sized stem leaving it up to the buyer to notice. That he doesn't make a point of it in the text suggests either he was careless in the details or was just hoping it would pass your notice. eBay has a vested interest in protecting the buyer so they come back and use them again. You are never absolutely "stuck" with a purchase if there is a case to be made. You can keep the pipe and enjoy it, sell it for a loss or invest more to have someone blend the shank or find a perfect stem, or you can bring the matter before eBay. They will probably find in your favor. But your time window is limited.
So OTOH, the picture shows the mal-sized stem leaving it up to the buyer to notice. That he doesn't make a point of it in the text suggests either he was careless in the details or was just hoping it would pass your notice. eBay has a vested interest in protecting the buyer so they come back and use them again. You are never absolutely "stuck" with a purchase if there is a case to be made. You can keep the pipe and enjoy it, sell it for a loss or invest more to have someone blend the shank or find a perfect stem, or you can bring the matter before eBay. They will probably find in your favor. But your time window is limited.
I guess I am in the opposite camp from Al and drwatson. I would file a claim on that pipe within minutes of having it in my hands. I think it is the sellers responsibility to describe what they are selling in an honest representation of the item listed. Just because the description says "used pipe, I am not expert, look at pictures" doesn't let the seller off the hook.
Why should the buyer take the hit because the seller doesn't give a proper description? How hard is it to take 2 minutes and describe a pipe? Oh but the seller isn't a pipe person... well then as a seller you should offer a refund if you don't know enough about what you are selling to describe it correctly. I have probably filed a dozen claims with ebay over pipes that weren't described correctly and I have won every one of them and I will continue to file them at this pace. If you don't like the rules as a seller then let pipestud sell for you and stop trying to squeeze buyers for every penny on a cracked bowl or a pipe with the wrong stem.
Why should the buyer take the hit because the seller doesn't give a proper description? How hard is it to take 2 minutes and describe a pipe? Oh but the seller isn't a pipe person... well then as a seller you should offer a refund if you don't know enough about what you are selling to describe it correctly. I have probably filed a dozen claims with ebay over pipes that weren't described correctly and I have won every one of them and I will continue to file them at this pace. If you don't like the rules as a seller then let pipestud sell for you and stop trying to squeeze buyers for every penny on a cracked bowl or a pipe with the wrong stem.
I disagree, "no returns" is clearly stated, which screams "buyer beware" or "you are on your own if you commit to buy". The seller did nothing dishonest and the picture clearly shows the stem misalignment. Tell me again how this is the sellers fault? As a seller, I'd take it back but I would not be responsible for the shipping cost in either direction. If he takes it back,I'd consider myself fortunate.
I recently posted a Sasieni 2nd (bought by Dave). The seller (a non-pipe vendor) had "no returns". The pipe had a silver band that as a knowledgeable pipe buyer, I was certain hid a repair. Do I have a right to ask for a return if that were discovered? I say it does not. I bought the pipe and assumed all of the risks. I could have asked for additional pictures, as any buyer can, but chose not to. That's not the fault of the seller. That's my opinion.
I took the "no returns" to mean "if you get it and your tastes have changed, or the person you bought it for has fallen off of a cliff while hiking in Denmark, then too bad." I wasn't aware that it was such a red flag, meaning, "I have successfully tricked you into buying junk and that's too bad for you!" I know for a fact the seller was not being deceptive, that's why I was so hesitant to file.
After much debate with myself, I just canceled the return. If there was any chance this was partially my fault, I didn't want the seller to suffer. I think there is validity to both sides of the discussion, and so I didn't want to unfairly take advantage of ebay siding with the buyer even when the matter is murky.
Thank you guys for your help with this. I'll be an even more careful buyer now.
After much debate with myself, I just canceled the return. If there was any chance this was partially my fault, I didn't want the seller to suffer. I think there is validity to both sides of the discussion, and so I didn't want to unfairly take advantage of ebay siding with the buyer even when the matter is murky.
Thank you guys for your help with this. I'll be an even more careful buyer now.
So I see a listing for the most spectacular looking Dunhill in the world and the seller shows all kinds of photos that show this is the most spectacular looking Dunhill in the world. He states in the description that the pipe is the most spectacular looking Dunhill in the world and to see the photos because they show it is the most spectacular looking Dunhill in the world. I buy the pipe for 1k because who doesn't want to smoke the most spectacular looking Dunhill in the world. When I get the pipe in my hands the stem has been glued to the shank and was never mentioned or shown in any photos. Oh and btw, the draft hole in the shank has been filled with cement glue which was never mentioned or shown in the photos. Come to find out this was never a smoking pipe but some kind of a prop for a movie or something. I am SOL because I didn't ask for more photos? I am not seeing it.
If a bowl is cracked and wasn't mentioned in the description, if the stem does not fit properly and it wasn't mentioned in the auction, if the inner bowl has fissures the size of the grand canyon and it wasn't mentioned, sorry but those pipes are going to be filed as a claim with ebay. Photos aren't the end all, some are blurry, some are showing the wrong angle and some the lighting isn't right. Many of you have eagerly started threads where you found a gem because the photos were bad or failed to show something. Do you then message the seller and tell them that there photos didn't properly represent the pipe and you feel you should pay them more money because the pipe is worth a lot more than the photos depicted?
I understand to each his own but for $125 that Dunhill should be better represented by the seller imo. I would have filed a claim. I'm happy the original poster has made a decision they can live with and I hope you can get georged or Walker to do a stem that justifies that pipe.
If a bowl is cracked and wasn't mentioned in the description, if the stem does not fit properly and it wasn't mentioned in the auction, if the inner bowl has fissures the size of the grand canyon and it wasn't mentioned, sorry but those pipes are going to be filed as a claim with ebay. Photos aren't the end all, some are blurry, some are showing the wrong angle and some the lighting isn't right. Many of you have eagerly started threads where you found a gem because the photos were bad or failed to show something. Do you then message the seller and tell them that there photos didn't properly represent the pipe and you feel you should pay them more money because the pipe is worth a lot more than the photos depicted?
I understand to each his own but for $125 that Dunhill should be better represented by the seller imo. I would have filed a claim. I'm happy the original poster has made a decision they can live with and I hope you can get georged or Walker to do a stem that justifies that pipe.
Simple. Failure to disclose issues in the description. The seller failed to disclose the condition of the item he was selling. Pictures aren't an adequate defense. But it's also quite possible that the seller didn't see the misalignment as an issue, through ignorance, indifference, low professional standards, or petty larceny in his heart.
But, the buyer also has responsibility for his own actions, especially if he doesn't ask questions about any potential issues, like the misalignment of the stem to the shank that is visible in one of the shitty pictures.
When I'm interested in buying something on eBay I always ask for information I think I need to make an informed decision, whether that info is a better description or better photographs, and I have no problem with being specific when it comes to what I want to see. The best photos are a poor proxy for holding the object in your hands and inspecting it personally. If the seller isn't interested in responding, I don't bid, period. Plus, if I find something serious that was not disclosed, like a crack in the interior of the chamber, I have legitimate recourse for undoing the purchase.
Guys, by those examples, EVERY pipe sold on Ebay is suspect.
Are these all original stems? Who knows, as George D has stated many times. We assume they are (as sellers and buyers) but stems are easily duplicated.
If someone represents a pipe as in excellent condition, but has the issues described above, that you MIGHT have a claim.
But again, the seller said "no returns", which means sold as is. Just like a car, or any other item. As a buyer, if we chose to ignore "no returns" and make the purchase, I say that is primarily the sellers responsibility.
The seller in this case was smart, they were selling something they had no expertise on and chose to let the pictures serve as the description.
Why should the seller be out shipping both ways because a buyer didn't acknowledge their part of a "no returns" sale?
Again, if I were the seller, I'd take that back but deduct shipping from the deal.
Are these all original stems? Who knows, as George D has stated many times. We assume they are (as sellers and buyers) but stems are easily duplicated.
If someone represents a pipe as in excellent condition, but has the issues described above, that you MIGHT have a claim.
But again, the seller said "no returns", which means sold as is. Just like a car, or any other item. As a buyer, if we chose to ignore "no returns" and make the purchase, I say that is primarily the sellers responsibility.
The seller in this case was smart, they were selling something they had no expertise on and chose to let the pictures serve as the description.
Why should the seller be out shipping both ways because a buyer didn't acknowledge their part of a "no returns" sale?
Again, if I were the seller, I'd take that back but deduct shipping from the deal.
I'd also add that this is a pretty darn good picture of the issue at hand.
And the description is completely accurate:
And the description is completely accurate:
Well almost, many allege that some Dunhill pipes were actually made in France. But, I don't think that means a description is dishonest.
Of course this is all my opinion! (and some good discourse)
Of course this is all my opinion! (and some good discourse)
I think that's a good attitude to take. It's kept my mistakes to a minimum and I've acquired some very good pipes as a result.
Even the best sellers sell duds. I've bought a number of pipes from Treasurepipes, but one turned out to be a real dud. It was a Will Purdy billiard with bamboo shank. When I got the pipe I proceeded to clean it, as most of this seller's pipes weren't cleaned. What I found was that the metal tenon had been wrapped with scotch tape to make it snug. The job was so skilfully done that Rodrigo had missed it and so had I, initially, until the alcohol caused the wrap to come apart. Without the tape, the tenon swam in the mortise and the stem fell out. I contacted Rodrigo and he refunded my money, including postage.
Well, Dunhill admitted this in 1928. And they also sold pipes stamped "Paris", and I don't think they were referring to Paris Texas. And this was a pretty common practice for all British makers, with the exception of Barling, who decided to make all of their own pipes after the 1906 St Cloud carvers' strike.
I never give that claim any credence when making a purchase because there's no way for the seller to know unless he's the original owner. And there's certainly no way for me to know. You may recall that GeorgeD and I had a pleasant back and forth on this topic in an earlier thread. But when a seller posts that pipe has "somehow survived in such excellent condition" when three weeks earlier the same pipe was sold to that seller, showing significant rim damage and dings, and has clearly been topped and heavily refinished, THAT is dishonesty.
With eBay, skepticism is a healthy attitude to have.
I would be very happy to pay for the return shipping and have done so many times if it is something I did as a buyer. I think I started a post here once about that same thing.
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/who-pays-return-shipping-for-undisclosed-issues
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