I think I’ll smoke some 1960’s vintage Velvet while listening to the Velvet Underground later today…
Group Tasting of Ancient Velvet Pipe Tobacco
- Thread starter ashdigger
- Start date
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The only box pass I was involved in had some drama, it stalled for EVER in one place....but in saying that, if you were willing to try starting one, it MAY just find it's way back to you having travelled and expanded. I would check back on old box pass threads for some general rules to lay out. As @ashdigger kind of summerised though, how to get everyone along the way to follow those general rules is hard, you have forum reputation as motivator, but that is kind of it.
I do still encourage you to start one, it is highly unlikely that anyone who has started one before is going to do it for you. When it is running smooth, the box pass is a wonderful thing.
How were you able to date the cob? I have one that I believe is possibly from the late 50’s 60’s?
The color of the Missouri meerschaum sticker is brown with a subdued yellow.
The brand new MM piper bought on Amazon earlier this week arrived today. You can see the color of the sticker is more of a magenta with light yellow color
The pipe at the top is of a MM “Diamond “ shank pipe I bought a couple months ago.
I called MM to look for a replacement stem and they told me that he didn’t think they had made a Diamond shank pipe like mine since the late 1970’s?
Since the pipe I recently acquired had the same color sticker and old style imprinted cob design on the shank, I surmised they where from the same time period.
I have spent a lot of time looking for a good written source of dating old Cob pipes and the only thing I found was this site:
Missouri Meerschaum -- Pipes : Logos & Markings
pipephil.eu
Call the MM customer phone and ask for someone to help date the pipe. They were very friendly.If anyone has a good source for Dating cobs, I’d like to know.
Smoked a second bowl today, and it was just as I wrote about yesterday's smoke, except the topping seemed a tad more obvious. Still reminds me the 50s, 60s and 70s Velvet.
I dug mine out and had another look, the sticker is green and is marked H&B Washington Missouri, I’m gonna see if I can find anything about it.The color of the Missouri meerschaum sticker is brown with a subdued yellow.
The brand new MM piper bought on Amazon earlier this week arrived today. You can see the color of the sticker is more of a magenta with light yellow color
The pipe at the top is of a MM “Diamond “ shank pipe I bought a couple months ago.
I called MM to look for a replacement stem and they told me that he didn’t think they had made a Diamond shank pipe like mine since the late 1970’s?
Since the pipe I recently acquired had the same color sticker and old style imprinted cob design on the shank, I surmised they where from the same time period.
I have spent a lot of time looking for a good written source of dating old Cob pipes and the only thing I found was this site:
View attachment 146595Call the MM customer phone and ask for someone to help date the pipe. They were very friendly.Missouri Meerschaum -- Pipes : Logos & Markings
If anyone has a good source for Dating cobs, I’d like to know.
My initial smoke of both tobaccos is complete!
I took some tasting notes while smoking both tobaccos. I even enlisted the help of my wife on some of the subtle tin notes and room note.
The headline reads, ”Simple is Good and Good Tobacco can be Simple.
Spoiler- I enjoyed smoking both of these- each on there own merits.
I smoked the tobacco using two different MM pipes of near identical shape and bowl size. Both never smoked. I smoked the two separate bowls within about a half an hour of each other. I drank ice water to cleanse my palate.
After Dinner, I will post my initial tasting notes.
I took some tasting notes while smoking both tobaccos. I even enlisted the help of my wife on some of the subtle tin notes and room note.
The headline reads, ”Simple is Good and Good Tobacco can be Simple.
Spoiler- I enjoyed smoking both of these- each on there own merits.
I smoked the tobacco using two different MM pipes of near identical shape and bowl size. Both never smoked. I smoked the two separate bowls within about a half an hour of each other. I drank ice water to cleanse my palate.
After Dinner, I will post my initial tasting notes.
I should mention the “fresh” Velvet is approximately 5 years old and the tub was “
”. When I opened it the pressure was released and my office was filled with this great smell.
”. When I opened it the pressure was released and my office was filled with this great smell.Vintage Velvet 1st Smoke
Tin note is subtly sweet with cinnamon- like the graham cracker.
Tobacco is fairly dry, however it packed well. After the char light and tamp,it lit easily. Slight sweet, spice note of cinnamon, maybe nutmeg and somewhere in there is a little bit of nuttiness- toasted walnuts. A very lite bodied smoke. I am sipping through this and it’s staying smooth with no bite.
Mid bowl I’m picking up some subtle bread notes along with the sweet, nutty baking spice and something like vanilla wafers. A very mellow and enjoyable smoke. Tobacco flavor is slight and sometimes muted by the other tasting notes.
Room note is mild.
Current Year Velvet 1st Smoke
Tobacco is of course more moist. But, as received was perfect for packing and smoking with no drying time. Tin note Dried fruit, plumb, Subtle sweetness and a very interesting subtle cocoa or chocolate note? Almost a hint of some kind of liquor used in the topping? whiskey like.
Packed well and lit easily after initial char and tamping.
Initial tasting note is faint sweet bread, with sub baking spice note- cinnamon and nutmeg. There’s a underlying fruit flavor; a cherry or plumb that lingers on the tongue. The baking spice notes are definitely more prevalent during retro-hale.
I’m sipping my way through this while taking notes. The smoke is cool with no bite or rough edges. The smoke is lite. Tobacco flavor is more prevalent in the newer version, however not a driving character of the smoke.
Mid bowl - I’m picking up some nutty flavors along with the baking spice and sweet fruit. I can imagine eating a piece of Holiday Spice bread with dried cherries and plumbs. Or maybe it’s a wonderful mulled cherry wine?
Room note is is very nice. Wife liked it best. Said she could smell cherry.
Nearing the end of the bowl the sweetness fades while the tobacco flavor starts to show more and works well with the spice notes. Smooth bread like tasting notes remain also.
Notes:
The bowls on these MM pipes are small. I am going to smoke out of these pipes one more time and then try them in a bowl of slightly larger size to see if I get any different flavors with more tobacco burning at once?
I enjoyed both of the ”tobaccos” very much. I’ve never smoked Velvet before, but after this I wouldn’t hesitate to pick up some. Both are all day smokes. Both are very mild and present favorable room note. Nicotine appears somewhat low. The vintage tended to burn a smidge hotter.
If I had to choose which one I liked more, I’m not there yet. I would have to smoke both tobacco several times. They’re both good on their own merits.
One crazy idea that I am going to try is to take an equal amount of both tobaccos and mix them up and smoke them together?
I‘m going to smoke both tobaccos again tomorrow and update my notes.
I’m looking forward to reading the posts from the other participants!
Thanks @ashdigger for your generosity and sponsoring this fun event!
Tin note is subtly sweet with cinnamon- like the graham cracker.
Tobacco is fairly dry, however it packed well. After the char light and tamp,it lit easily. Slight sweet, spice note of cinnamon, maybe nutmeg and somewhere in there is a little bit of nuttiness- toasted walnuts. A very lite bodied smoke. I am sipping through this and it’s staying smooth with no bite.
Mid bowl I’m picking up some subtle bread notes along with the sweet, nutty baking spice and something like vanilla wafers. A very mellow and enjoyable smoke. Tobacco flavor is slight and sometimes muted by the other tasting notes.
Room note is mild.
Current Year Velvet 1st Smoke
Tobacco is of course more moist. But, as received was perfect for packing and smoking with no drying time. Tin note Dried fruit, plumb, Subtle sweetness and a very interesting subtle cocoa or chocolate note? Almost a hint of some kind of liquor used in the topping? whiskey like.
Packed well and lit easily after initial char and tamping.
Initial tasting note is faint sweet bread, with sub baking spice note- cinnamon and nutmeg. There’s a underlying fruit flavor; a cherry or plumb that lingers on the tongue. The baking spice notes are definitely more prevalent during retro-hale.
I’m sipping my way through this while taking notes. The smoke is cool with no bite or rough edges. The smoke is lite. Tobacco flavor is more prevalent in the newer version, however not a driving character of the smoke.
Mid bowl - I’m picking up some nutty flavors along with the baking spice and sweet fruit. I can imagine eating a piece of Holiday Spice bread with dried cherries and plumbs. Or maybe it’s a wonderful mulled cherry wine?
Room note is is very nice. Wife liked it best. Said she could smell cherry.
Nearing the end of the bowl the sweetness fades while the tobacco flavor starts to show more and works well with the spice notes. Smooth bread like tasting notes remain also.
Notes:
The bowls on these MM pipes are small. I am going to smoke out of these pipes one more time and then try them in a bowl of slightly larger size to see if I get any different flavors with more tobacco burning at once?
I enjoyed both of the ”tobaccos” very much. I’ve never smoked Velvet before, but after this I wouldn’t hesitate to pick up some. Both are all day smokes. Both are very mild and present favorable room note. Nicotine appears somewhat low. The vintage tended to burn a smidge hotter.
If I had to choose which one I liked more, I’m not there yet. I would have to smoke both tobacco several times. They’re both good on their own merits.
One crazy idea that I am going to try is to take an equal amount of both tobaccos and mix them up and smoke them together?
I‘m going to smoke both tobaccos again tomorrow and update my notes.
I’m looking forward to reading the posts from the other participants!
Thanks @ashdigger for your generosity and sponsoring this fun event!
The tin note of the newer Velvet was stronger with notes of licorice and fruitcake. The older version still retained some of the licorice aroma, but not near as much. While smoking the current version I noticed a floral aroma upon the initial light which remained through at least half the bowl. A light fruit flavor was present that I would describe as peach along with a subtle sweetness down to 3/4 of the bowl. The tobacco flavor comes to the front after the 3/4 mark with the burley providing some nutty flavor. Surprisingly the vintage version had a stronger floral aroma and flavor upon lighting. The fruit was less obvious while smoking and disappeared earlier than the new version. I picked up a little liquor and sweetness as well. The burley flavor appeared earlier, maybe a little past halfway. The burley was not as strong but did taste a little fermented, not in a bad way. Both versions packed, lit and burned well. The older version smoking a little hotter and faster. I did get a mild tongue bite when not paying attention with the older tobacco when trying to coax something more from it on my third bowl. Both versions had a smooth and full mouth feel with a very mild nicotine level and leaves a pleasant aftertaste that dissipates quickly.
Smoked the newer one first the other day. The bag aroma is like a sweet, cinnamon cherry and stronger than I expected. It's very smooth and it might be one of the more milder smokes I've ever had. A light wood/nut base flavor with the cherry most prominent of the top flavors to start out. Over time, the cherry faded and the spice picked up with the very occasional molasses popping in for fleeting moments. Burned well, I had let it sit out for maybe 20 minutes but I doubt it did much.
Just finished smoking a bowl of the ancient stuff. The best description I can give is the smell of an old book with some nutmeg spice sprinkled in. The tobacco was surprisingly not kindling dry.....it actually had a little give to it and what I'd consider a perfect smoking moisture content. Packed and smoked well. First light......that old book smell translated to taste with the nutmeg. I'm assuming this is the references to the floral taste and I can definitely see it. This flavor combination pretty much ran the entire bowl and like the new version, the spice grew as the bowl progressed. No noticeable fruit topping like the new, fairly similar cuts and fairly similar behavior as well as being smooth and very mild. I'd be interested if that old book/floral taste is a product of time wrapped in that brown piece of paper or remnants of the old topping (or a mixture of both).
An interesting comparison.
Just finished smoking a bowl of the ancient stuff. The best description I can give is the smell of an old book with some nutmeg spice sprinkled in. The tobacco was surprisingly not kindling dry.....it actually had a little give to it and what I'd consider a perfect smoking moisture content. Packed and smoked well. First light......that old book smell translated to taste with the nutmeg. I'm assuming this is the references to the floral taste and I can definitely see it. This flavor combination pretty much ran the entire bowl and like the new version, the spice grew as the bowl progressed. No noticeable fruit topping like the new, fairly similar cuts and fairly similar behavior as well as being smooth and very mild. I'd be interested if that old book/floral taste is a product of time wrapped in that brown piece of paper or remnants of the old topping (or a mixture of both).
An interesting comparison.
I posted this first section in the WAYS thread earlier tonight:
And so begins my adventure in the "Group Tasting of Ancient Velvet Pipe Tobacco" (thank you @ashdigger !) I wanted to have a level playing field for trying the Velvet tobaccos. I didn't want to have the flavours influenced by previously smoked blends in used pipes from my collection; I wanted the same fresh, unsmoked pipes for the different iterations of the tobacco, so that the chambers would be close to identical and share the same smoking properties; to facilitate this, I picked up three Missouri Meerschaum MacArthur 5-Star Natural Straight Corn Cob pipes. I chose cobs to keep the cost of the experiment down, and it gave me a reason to pick up that model, which I was intrigued by for quite some time.
I'm going to start on the left with the dried 1920s Velvet straight from the tin that was still sealed until today. The middle pipe will be used for the rehydrated dry tobacco. I'm not sure how long it'll take to get it moist. I've got the tobacco in a bag with a quadrant of a Black Ice humidification device filled with steam distilled water. I'll have to smoke this one last (it could be a week from now, maybe longer). The pipe on the right is filled with the five year old "fresh" Velvet tobacco from the tin that ashdigger popped this past week.
I've avoided reading anyone's tasting notes so as not to influence my own impressions. I'll read them after I post my thoughts. I've never smoked Velvet before.
I started with the dried out 1920s Velvet. There was a mustiness that was present right away. It became masked the further I smoked. The taste was smooth and mild. It tasted like an extremely watered down Dr. Pepper soda. I've heard people compare Velvet to Play-Doh, so this kind of makes sense to me, as I've always thought Dr. Pepper tasted like Play-Doh smells.
I lit up the five year old Velvet next and am smoking it as I write this. I immediately got some cherry and berry forward notes. Smelling the smoke with my nose over the chamber, I pick up some kind of alcohol topping and molasses. I get a light anise and nut flavour on the tip of my tongue. I wouldn't say it tastes like Dr. Pepper, but it's interesting to me that it has been speculated that the twenty-three flavours in Dr. Pepper are as follows:
The 23 flavors are cola, cherry, licorice, amaretto (almond, vanilla, blackberry, apricot, blackberry, caramel, pepper, anise, sarsaparilla, ginger, molasses, lemon, plum, orange, nutmeg, cardamon, all spice, coriander juniper, birch and prickly ash
I would say that several of the things listed above are notes that I do get from this tobacco, so I don't feel Dr. Pepper is a bad comparison.
I'm not sure how long it will take to rehydrate the 1920s Velvet, but, I'll follow up with my impressions later on. I would like to thank @ashdigger for his incredible generosity and I'm grateful to have been able to participate in this fun experiment/experience.
And so begins my adventure in the "Group Tasting of Ancient Velvet Pipe Tobacco" (thank you @ashdigger !) I wanted to have a level playing field for trying the Velvet tobaccos. I didn't want to have the flavours influenced by previously smoked blends in used pipes from my collection; I wanted the same fresh, unsmoked pipes for the different iterations of the tobacco, so that the chambers would be close to identical and share the same smoking properties; to facilitate this, I picked up three Missouri Meerschaum MacArthur 5-Star Natural Straight Corn Cob pipes. I chose cobs to keep the cost of the experiment down, and it gave me a reason to pick up that model, which I was intrigued by for quite some time.
I'm going to start on the left with the dried 1920s Velvet straight from the tin that was still sealed until today. The middle pipe will be used for the rehydrated dry tobacco. I'm not sure how long it'll take to get it moist. I've got the tobacco in a bag with a quadrant of a Black Ice humidification device filled with steam distilled water. I'll have to smoke this one last (it could be a week from now, maybe longer). The pipe on the right is filled with the five year old "fresh" Velvet tobacco from the tin that ashdigger popped this past week.
I've avoided reading anyone's tasting notes so as not to influence my own impressions. I'll read them after I post my thoughts. I've never smoked Velvet before.
I started with the dried out 1920s Velvet. There was a mustiness that was present right away. It became masked the further I smoked. The taste was smooth and mild. It tasted like an extremely watered down Dr. Pepper soda. I've heard people compare Velvet to Play-Doh, so this kind of makes sense to me, as I've always thought Dr. Pepper tasted like Play-Doh smells.
I lit up the five year old Velvet next and am smoking it as I write this. I immediately got some cherry and berry forward notes. Smelling the smoke with my nose over the chamber, I pick up some kind of alcohol topping and molasses. I get a light anise and nut flavour on the tip of my tongue. I wouldn't say it tastes like Dr. Pepper, but it's interesting to me that it has been speculated that the twenty-three flavours in Dr. Pepper are as follows:
The 23 flavors are cola, cherry, licorice, amaretto (almond, vanilla, blackberry, apricot, blackberry, caramel, pepper, anise, sarsaparilla, ginger, molasses, lemon, plum, orange, nutmeg, cardamon, all spice, coriander juniper, birch and prickly ash
I would say that several of the things listed above are notes that I do get from this tobacco, so I don't feel Dr. Pepper is a bad comparison.
I'm not sure how long it will take to rehydrate the 1920s Velvet, but, I'll follow up with my impressions later on. I would like to thank @ashdigger for his incredible generosity and I'm grateful to have been able to participate in this fun experiment/experience.
I had a chance to smoke both samples yesterday, and to me, they are, not surprisingly, a reversed image of each other. By that, I mean that what stood out for me in the 1920's Velvet was the dry, black walnut flavor of the burley. Pleasant, very easy smoking/burning in my cob, with a light sweetness that was more like if someone had added a fairly neutral sweetener, such as simple syrup. I could pick up the Velvet scent in the dry tobacco but once I got past the first few puffs, all I was left with was burley. By the last third of the bowl, I only had a fairly airy smoke, but this might have been due to the fact that I smoked this in an unfiltered cob.
For the more modern version of Velvet, I chose a new meerschaum. And here, for me, the flavors were reversed. The topping was very pronounced--I think that @TheIronMonkey really nails it with his comparison to Dr. Pepper. I hadn't thought of that, but I was thinking sweet prune. If I can channel @JimInks , I would say that the topping heavily sublimated the tobacco and I found myself trying to find the nutty burley flavor, which I'd get hints of from time to time, but I think that my mouth was so coated with the Dr. Pepper flavor that I couldn't find anything much more than the topping.
I don't have experience with "codger" blends, but I could really see how these could be smoked while working in the garden, taking a walk, etc. No fuss, burns super easily. I'm going to sit down over the next few days and reverse the experience--smoke the new Velvet in the cob and the 1920s in the meerschaum.
Thanks again, @ashdigger , for the generous samples!!
For the more modern version of Velvet, I chose a new meerschaum. And here, for me, the flavors were reversed. The topping was very pronounced--I think that @TheIronMonkey really nails it with his comparison to Dr. Pepper. I hadn't thought of that, but I was thinking sweet prune. If I can channel @JimInks , I would say that the topping heavily sublimated the tobacco and I found myself trying to find the nutty burley flavor, which I'd get hints of from time to time, but I think that my mouth was so coated with the Dr. Pepper flavor that I couldn't find anything much more than the topping.
I don't have experience with "codger" blends, but I could really see how these could be smoked while working in the garden, taking a walk, etc. No fuss, burns super easily. I'm going to sit down over the next few days and reverse the experience--smoke the new Velvet in the cob and the 1920s in the meerschaum.
Thanks again, @ashdigger , for the generous samples!!
I bought two new cobs also and am running a few bowls of VA through them to get rid of any corn flavors. Will then commence the comparison of the newish and much older Velvet.
Very cool! Sorry I missed out on this but these reviews have me wanting to find some Velvet to try. I tried Granger based on Ash's recommendation so why not Velvet?! I will have to wait. Covid is kicking my ass at the moment with 3 straight days of 103+F temps. Taste and smell are gone. Elephant still standing on my chest. Being north of 55 is no fun at times. WTF!?! First in-person meeting for work in over 2 years turned into a small spreading event. Così è la vita!
Be very careful about rehydrating old tobacco. Mold can form quickly that way.
Shout out and thanks to @ashdigger for the opportunity to give this a try!
This was my first time with Velvet so I decided to smoke a few bowls of the newer version first, I used a fairly new IMP meer and smoked three bowls of each.
First thoughts, the tin note is cherry cough syrup with a hint of alcohol. One touch of a flame and we’re off. The cherry note is up front and in your face with some lite chocolate and raw brown sugar in the background, mostly a sweet citrus on the retro. The toppings start to fade around the halfway point and by the last third has a slightly sweet chemical taste.
First thoughts on the vintage version, the tin note is cinnamon/cherry. For some reason the cat was fascinated with the smell of this, she didn’t just sniff it she was trying to snort it!
The first bowl I loaded as soon as I opened the tin. There’s still some flavor here, nutmeg is up front with some citrus/cherry and cardboard in the background, the burn is hot, I’m not sure if I packed it to tight, to loose or just had to much moisture in it.
The second and third bowls I let sit out for a while and got better results. The nutmeg & citrus are still up front, letting it air out a bit has helped with the cardboard taste and the nu flavor of the burley is more noticeable, it’s still a hot smoke that could bite if not payed attention to.
Overall I don’t see Velvet making it into my rotation of daily smokes, it would be alright for a change of pace once in a while but it’s a bit on the sweet side for me.
This was my first time with Velvet so I decided to smoke a few bowls of the newer version first, I used a fairly new IMP meer and smoked three bowls of each.
First thoughts, the tin note is cherry cough syrup with a hint of alcohol. One touch of a flame and we’re off. The cherry note is up front and in your face with some lite chocolate and raw brown sugar in the background, mostly a sweet citrus on the retro. The toppings start to fade around the halfway point and by the last third has a slightly sweet chemical taste.
First thoughts on the vintage version, the tin note is cinnamon/cherry. For some reason the cat was fascinated with the smell of this, she didn’t just sniff it she was trying to snort it!
The first bowl I loaded as soon as I opened the tin. There’s still some flavor here, nutmeg is up front with some citrus/cherry and cardboard in the background, the burn is hot, I’m not sure if I packed it to tight, to loose or just had to much moisture in it.
The second and third bowls I let sit out for a while and got better results. The nutmeg & citrus are still up front, letting it air out a bit has helped with the cardboard taste and the nu flavor of the burley is more noticeable, it’s still a hot smoke that could bite if not payed attention to.
Overall I don’t see Velvet making it into my rotation of daily smokes, it would be alright for a change of pace once in a while but it’s a bit on the sweet side for me.
I’m finally no longer sick and got around to trying both of Velvets. I’ve had Velvet in the past and didn’t enjoy it at the time but I have to say I did enjoy it this time.
I tried the modern Velvet first in a briar. It smelled mainly of liquor and cherry to me but when smoked I just tasted a hint of cherry with a hint of liquor on the retrohale. What I liked about it was the sourness I got from the tobacco. Sour in a good way. It stayed lit just fine, I didn’t dry it out and there were few rough edges to it with no bite.
Right out of the can the vintage smells like raisins and I detect no cherry or liquor notes. Smells a bit like an old library book but that’s probably from the wrapper. When I smoked it I noticed some slight floral notes and a little bit of that good sour. Towards the end of the bowl I got some chocolate flavorings which was nice. Smoked a little hot but that’s to be expected. I used a cob on this one . All and all this was a really fun experience and I have to say I really like Velvet and will pick up more on my next order! Thanks so much for including me on this @ashdigger! You are extremely generous and I appreciate it!
I tried the modern Velvet first in a briar. It smelled mainly of liquor and cherry to me but when smoked I just tasted a hint of cherry with a hint of liquor on the retrohale. What I liked about it was the sourness I got from the tobacco. Sour in a good way. It stayed lit just fine, I didn’t dry it out and there were few rough edges to it with no bite.
Right out of the can the vintage smells like raisins and I detect no cherry or liquor notes. Smells a bit like an old library book but that’s probably from the wrapper. When I smoked it I noticed some slight floral notes and a little bit of that good sour. Towards the end of the bowl I got some chocolate flavorings which was nice. Smoked a little hot but that’s to be expected. I used a cob on this one . All and all this was a really fun experience and I have to say I really like Velvet and will pick up more on my next order! Thanks so much for including me on this @ashdigger! You are extremely generous and I appreciate it!
Due to some weird circumstances I was only today able to get to the post office and the Velvet package was there waiting. I'm getting ready to fire up a bowl and report back this evening!
Tim, thank you so much for this opportunity to review!
Tim, thank you so much for this opportunity to review!