Great Yarns Spoilt

[alaskanpiper]

I'm reading Moby Dick for . . . the fifth time maybe. I remember thoroughly enjoying it the first time read it in the eighth or maybe ninth grade. It was a fascinating tale for required reading. Then my teacher ruined it for me for years. She insisted on dissecting it and finding all sorts of nonsensical meanings in the words. I wonder what it is about great, enjoyable yarns that drives teachers and critics to destroy an author's work and take the joy from it?

Just an idle thought.

I recently re-read it as well and had the exact same thought. After reading Grapes of Wrath for the first time since high school a number of years ago and thoroughly enjoying it I started working my way through many of the classics and you couldn’t be more right. Finished Moby a few months back and thoroughly enjoyed it.

The classroom over-analysis I believe does more harm than good not just for the novel, but for reading in general. Makes you wonder what the authors would think. Can’t help but think it would be met with either laughter or tears, maybe both.

 

[alaskanpiper]

But, Moby Dick… I could care less about what all of the parts of a boat are, and 90% of the book is trying to teach is the craft of whaling. And, I never understood why any of that was important. The book could have been just as good if he left all of that out, and just made it about 100 pages long to tell the actual story.

I had the same thought, although it didn’t ruin the novel for me. However, I suspect this part of the novel was much more valuable to the average reader when it was published, given that they had much less access to this type of information. No discovery channel, no internet, etc. Just a thought, could be dead ass wrong.

 

[dontbeaburleyman]

I have the same problem with movies.

I watch movies to get away from the rigors of everyday politics, world views, work, etc. Just want to let my mind wander and be entertained.

Invariably the discussion becomes the deeper meaning of the movie regarding politics, world views and work. Uugghh

 

[anotherbob]

Personally I think it's just as lame to insist either way is the correct way to appreciate any art. It's no different to me then saying that it's only right to just smoke a pipe or just right to dig into the nuances and figure out what casings and leaf are used. They're both just different ways to appreciate and engage in the work or product. And yeah school has ruined many good books, sometimes just by making you read them instead of waiting till you want to.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

I have the same problem with movies.

I watch movies to get away from the rigors of everyday politics, world views, work, etc. Just want to let my mind wander and be entertained.

Invariably the discussion becomes the deeper meaning of the movie regarding politics, world views and work. Uugghh

Often now movies are riddled with propaganda.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Ahh, and here we see a thread heading right into the ditch.

 

[warren]

Politicians, suspects and witnesses were pretty much the only people I spent time trying to discover the nuances of what they say/said. The whys and such were often intriguing.

I understood the why of teachers wanting to make us, the students, delve into meanings and such. I just wish they hadn't been so dogmatic about. I also understand that dogmatic teachers are necessary. Although I am more in favor of Socratic teachers, especially in the upper grades.

I firmly believe one of the main goals of a teacher should be to instill in the student a love of learning as well as conjugation, math and such.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Politicians, suspects and witnesses were pretty much the only people I spent time trying to discover the nuances of what they say/said. The whys and such were often intriguing.

I understood the why of teachers wanting to make us, the students, delve into meanings and such. I just wish they hadn't been so dogmatic about. I also understand that dogmatic teachers are necessary. Although I am more in favor of Socratic teachers, especially in the upper grades.

I firmly believe one of the main goals of a teacher should be to instill in the student a love of learning as well as conjugation, math and such.

I don’t know your teacher, but for me, it was literate classes that gave me inspiration to learn more, delve deeper. But, we all learn and are inspired by different things. Obviously, you must have passed the class. Passing any class usually doesn’t require 100% mastery of the subject at the given grade level. The powers that be understand that the majority of all students will not achieve 100% mastery, nor is it necessary to live a functional life. I have never developed an appreciation for Shakespeare. But, I love the Greeks.
The teachers follow objectives set by their states, and offer deeper understanding for those who have a passion for those sorts of things. Understanding that there many similarities between Old Man of the Sea and Moby Dick won’t won’t make or break us, but it is offered for those who easily see these complex language anomalies and can learn from them. But, by no means does a teacher require you to mastery these to pass. Sure sure, they’d be tickled if they reached every student at that level, but most teachers are realists.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I add… “most teachers are realists…” but the state sets the guidelines for grading.

 

[cigrmaster]

Moby Dick was one of the few books I had to read in school that I really enjoyed. I just watched the movie the other night it was on one of the streaming stations. I have watched the movie quite a bit.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My favorite book covered in high school was Lord of the Flies… which prepared me for forum communities.

 

[warren]

Obviously, you must have passed the class.

I passed many a class because I was goalie on the hockey team in high school. Can't win a game without a decent goalie. Some of my teachers had real school spirit. Thankfully!

 

[puff_not_snuff]

Just read Ulysses. No one really knows the meaning so it can never be really dissected.

 

[renfield]

Not the same, but similar. I took a music appreciation class in college. I loved punk rock and thought it would help me appreciate music.

Boy was I wrong. The pretentious douche canoe of a fraud teacher did nothing but pontificate and shit on everything we listened too.

I had the opposite experience. I needed to take an elective and took Music Appreciation (along with Thermodynamics II and Partial Differential Equations I during) summer school.

The prof did a great job teaching us about the structure, history and types of music and how to be an engaged listener. I was already a musician and really into music but I came away with a whole new set of ears. Decades later I still benefit from that class.

It’s unfortunate that a bad teacher can utterly ruin what they’re teaching.

 

[Honkytonk Man]

Ha ha! Some really deep thinkers on this forum.

But, Moby Dick… I could care less about what all of the parts of a boat are, and 90% of the book is trying to teach is the craft of whaling. And, I never understood why any of that was important. The book could have been just as good if he left all of that out, and just made it about 100 pages long to tell the actual story.

But, you can enjoy a book, painting, piece of music without understanding what a master artist is trying to convey… just like you can understand that 2+2=4. But, that doesn’t mean you understand math, and how you can use numbers to measure more complex things like how to get to the moon. Your teachers were trying to convey how you can find deeper meanings in art. Except the music teachers. They are all dickheads.

Call me Ishmael.

 

[Honkytonk Man]

Personally I think it's just as lame to insist either way is the correct way to appreciate any art. It's no different to me then saying that it's only right to just smoke a pipe or just right to dig into the nuances and figure out what casings and leaf are used. They're both just different ways to appreciate and engage in the work or product. And yeah school has ruined many good books, sometimes just by making you read them instead of waiting till you want to.

I would agree. If one finds enjoyment in anything and is interoperated as something that you like and understand, then that's all that matters.

 

[newbroom]

I was just this a.m. listening to NPR and an author who describes the interaction of reader and words on paper with an awareness that the reader supplies at least 50% of his or hers, imagination to complete the narrative.
It's only words, and words are all I have, to take away your tears.
My favorite book from my youth is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"

 

[puff_not_snuff]

I was just this a.m. listening to NPR and an author who describes the interaction of reader and words on paper with an awareness that the reader supplies at least 50% of his or hers, imagination to complete the narrative.
It's only words, and words are all I have, to take away your tears.
My favorite book from my youth is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"

Some people think that each reader should be paid for the words tat they provide but I don't know how they could keep track of that.

 

[El Capitán]

I used to tell my English teachers that sometimes "a cigar is just a cigar". They never liked that. I can break down a book and make it relate to something but I believe writers write books to be read, not analyzed.

 

[puff_not_snuff]

I used to tell my English teachers that sometimes "a cigar is just a cigar". They never liked that. I can break down a book and make it relate to something but I believe writers write books to be read, not analyzed.

Do you ever try to smoke one o your Gandolf staffs like a cigar?