FVF advise needed !

[redpanda]

Hi everybody,
it's been awhile since I last checked in here. Been busy making the living. Anyways, today I finally got a long awaited package from UK, full of FVF. Now, I have read people say it benefits from some drying time, and others saying it is best smoked moist as is (and we all know how moist this stuff comes). I just read a review of a guy saying he smokes it straight from the tin, and any drying results in loosing the flavor. However, it isn't cheap, and I have had some bad experiences in the past, so I did let it dry for about an hour before loading. While delicious, I have to admit it was not an easy smoke. I had to suck on that pipe really hard. I did rub it, so it did not require many relights but it wasn't what my idea of a relaxed smoke is. So fellas, I know many of you love that blend. What is the best way to go about FVF ? Your advise is greatly appreciated. Thanks !

 

[crpntr1]

try drying it longer, I usually cube cut it before bed, load the pipe, and smoke it the next morning
if you're rubbing it out try drying it for 2 hrs, if that doesn't work try smoking it straight out of the tin.

eventually you'll find the right combo for you

 

[oldreddog]

Redpanda your probably grappling with one of the most difficult tobaccos know!

I find drying,cube cutting and gravity filling work well. I did see a video that suggested it was possible from the tin to roughly rub a flake and break the strands to half the bowl height stack them vertically and put another stack on top. I have not been brave enough to try this method. I would also say that FVF and full VA's are considered to be difficult for new Piper's to get. It's really only in the last six months or so that I have been enjoying them more and more.

While no a full VA, allegedly, Orlick Golden Sliced is more accessible.

I wish you good luck ::

 

[bigpond]

Redpanda. I hope making a living has going well for you recently. I have a suspicion you referred to a TR review by Briarpatch. I find his reviews very insightful and agree with his point that a moist tobacco can have more flavor than when dry. However, I don't have an asbestos tongue, or as he would say my tongue is not "properly seasoned" though I smoke VA flakes nearly exclusively.
Here's what I do. Cut the flakes to desired length, lay them out as a single layer on a paper towels, towels, coffee filters (peck), and let them simply air dry until the flakes no longer bend when you pick them up by the middle. The flakes should still flex without the tobacco fibers crumbling.
At this point, I'll either cub cut the flakes to match head sized pieces and jar them, or leave them whole. When I plan to smoke, I'll decant the right amount to dry prior to packing. Cube cut will usually take about 30 minutes and flakes an hour or two humidity dependent.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I always find the declaration that drying a blend loses flavor odd, when I find the exact opposite to be true. I know, I know, everyone's taste buds are different. But, the steam from FVF gets in the way of me being able to taste the tobacco and burns me as I smoke. For me, the dryer the better, but I won't be dogmatic about it. I urge everyone to find their own taste point in the moisture department. But, Peck had posted a great idea recently concerning FVF. He cubed the whole tin, dried it, and then closed the tin for a conciderable time for the moisture to level out from the inside out of the cubes. I haven't tried this yet, but on my next tine of FVF, I will give it a go.

 

[aldecaker]

I like all my tobaccos on the dry side. My palate notices no flavor loss from a reasonable amount of drying time. A tobacco that is unsmokeable due to being too wet is the real waste, for me.

 

[msandoval858]

I generally don't like my tobaccos too dry, because I often find they hit my taste buds as hot and harsh, very unpleasant. However, FVF is one of those that needs a good amount of dry down time. Smoked right out of the tin, it tends to be too hot with steam and really muddles out the flavor significantly. I generally rub it out thoroughly and allow it to dry. Works well for me. Ultimately you'll have to do a bit of experimenting to find what works best for you.

 

[bent1]

got this tip from a good friend of mine Harvey. Take a strip of the tobacco, expand the width of the strip by pulling it apart b (just enough to create gaps), but not enough that it seperated from the strip. Place the expanded strip in the microwave for 7-10 seconds. Let cool for 30 seconds. Now berak it appart to look like a ready rub cut, pack pipe & light.

 

[hugodrax]

Not to be a contrarian, but FVF is a genuinely difficult tobacco. I don't find the rewards to be worth the pain of preparing it. FVF resist fire whether it's wet or dry and, when it's finally alight, just doesn't do it for me. I much prefer Best Brown.

 

[rx2man]

I have several pounds of the stuff and when you get it right its worth the effort IMO. Some are going to cringe at what I say next but FVF reminds me of a milder version of 1Q. I happen to like 1Q and to me its almost the people who came up with it were shooting for a straight VA flavor when its on. Cant tell if those are pitch forks coming my way.....

 

[bigpond]

Not to be a contrarian, but FVF is a genuinely difficult tobacco. I don't find the rewards to be worth the pain of preparing it. FVF resist fire whether it's wet or dry and, when it's finally alight, just doesn't do it for me. I much prefer Best Brown.

Experienced flake smokers often malign FVF, as above, yet my experience is contrary. I've never had a tin or box that was reticent to burn. By contrast, I have box of BBF that even after 3 months refuses to burn and tastes dull compared to my previous batch. Similarly, I have a batch of St James Flake that even after a year will not burn well without 12 hours of drying time. Anyway, there seems to be a lot of variability between batches and it's to the point that I've dropped them entirely from my most recent order.
Back on subject, I've found that FVF burns best when the flakes are dry enough for the strands to break and then packed very lightly, usually about 2/3 of the amount I would pack with a macbaran flake.

 

[crpntr1]

FVF reminds me of a milder version of 1Q

Blasphemous

 

[redpanda]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't smoking dry FVF like smoking a completely different tobacco..? Yes, it does burn better, but it also looses the flavor and the taste. All that is left after drying it is the grassiness. I'd rather smoke hay, it would be way cheaper too.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't find that to be the case. I get more of an array of flavors when a tobacco is dry. The only difference is that you are adding steam by smoking it moist, and the steam can mask most of the flavors, unless you just don't like the flavors. Then, by all means, smoke it wet. I am not advocating that everyone smoke the same as me. Just pointing out how I prefer to smoke.

But, if you choose to smoke it bone dry, smoke much slower. The flavor will come into focus better. IMO.
Dry and stale are different. By staleness people are referring to the loss of all of the essential oils from the leaf, which is bad. You usually get this from just leaving the tin open all of the time. You would just want to dry out the water, not kill it.

 

[redpanda]

Cosmic: So how do you suggest drying it ? And for how long ? Just please don't say microwave, cause I simply won't do this to my tobacco. I have been having a hard time with this, but I will persist. Perhaps you are right, I might have killed it completely.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I haven't had a tin of FVF open for almost a year, but I remember leaving it out for at least a couple of hours before smoking. I would suggest using a lamp, but I always forgot about my tobacco, and would come back to find it cooked by the lamp. Just a couple of hours, or I pack my pipes the day before, so that they are ready to go for the day, or I will leave a few flakes in a non-airtight tobacco pouch for the day.
But, without any drying, it is a bugger to get lit and a swampy mess when you do get it lit.
Ha ha, I do microwave my flakes, if one is handy. But, just nuking it for 8-10 seconds doesn't dry it out as much as it "wakes up" all of the oils in the tobacco to give even more flavor, like warming a cigar slowly with a match before lighting it.
I believe Peck had a post about cube cutting an entire tin, drying it out for a few hours and then putting it back into a closed tin for the oils and humidity to balance back out. This sounded like the best plan, and I will give that a try when I pop my next tin of this.

 

[sablebrush52]

I feel your frustration. The first time I tried FVF, I rubbed it out and smoked it fresh from the baggie (I had bought a 250 gm box and it's bagged inside). I found it to be truly horrible, more like the stall after the horse had pissed and shit in it. I tried letting it dry out for about 45 minutes, and it wasn't much better. Then a member here told me to let it dry for about 5 hours. Voila! Eureka! Great flavor!
I'm not saying that 5 hours in the magic number. If the flake is really wet and you want to leave it to dry whole, then you will be looking for several hours of drying time based on climate and other factors. You're going to need to experiment to find the sweet spot. I generally get the most flavor from flakes, including FVF, when they're not quite bone dry. I'm an outdoor only smoker, so I can't rely on sitting in a cloud of my own smoke to give me flavor reinforcement. What I get to taste has to come from what notes I get when I draw in the smoke and others when I retrohale. As a consequence of smoking within these parameters, I've had to test out each blend to find out what gives me the most return. Very dry to nearly bone dry is where that happens for me.
I've heard the debate over drying tobacco VS losing flavor. My experience is that too much moisture causes more flavor loss than drying the tobacco, not to mention tongue bite and a hot smoke. There are some tobaccos that smoke better with a bit more moisture in them, like St Bruno, but even these benefit with a short bit of dry time. Too much water causes flavor loss.
Also, some manufacturers, like Russ Ouellette's Hearth & Home, tin their blends at the optimum moisture levels for optimal flavor and require no further drying, generally quite dry. It's interesting that smokers here have commented that they find his blends too dry and moisten it. So Russ sends it out at its optimal balance to get the most flavor and others who are used to moist tobacco, mess with it.
Bottom line is you will have to experiment with each blend to find out what works best for you. Gawth blends tend to be too wet to smoke straight from the tin. How much drying time will vary depending on environment and prep, but a couple of hours is a good place to start and to work around from there.

 

[acutabovebriar]

+1 on the nuc thing! Some times even for 15 or 20 seconds.

 

[redpanda]

Sablebrush 52: Thanks ! I get it. You are absolutely right, I was smoking some of it pretty wet yesterday, and I suddenly realised how the only thing I was getting was steam and hot smoke with no taste at all.

For now, I hate to say but I have lost the battle with FVF. I also lost the taste along the way, burning my tongue and all. But I have not given up on it.

 

[shroedingerscat]

I smoke Sam Gawith's Full Virginia Flake, and Best Brown Flake all the time (I love flake tobacco). When I get a new tin or bag, I lat the strips out on cookie sheets and let them dry for 24 hrs, to 2 days, then put them back in the tin, or jar them. The flavor will mature over time, so aging is desirable if you have the patience (I seldom do). I use the fold & stuff method (cannon-balling...). Sometimes it's a little work to get it lit and burning evenly, but once that is done, I never have any trouble smoking it, or keeping it lit.
I sometimes smoke it right out of the tin. It's a bear to light, but once you get it going, it should be OK. Folding and Stuffing is a bit looser pack, and allows a bit more air circulation. Also, moist tobacco smokes easier in a wide bowl than it does in a tall one.