From Man's First Moonwalk to Today...

[Ahi Ka]

Whereas we went from Richard Pearse to RocketLab in the same time

 

[georged]

I don’t know why anyone would want to waste time for a launch, trip there, spend a few days on the surface, trip back…

If you don't "get it", no explanation will make sense to you.

But I'll try.

In an entropic Universe nothing truly matters, because everything will become dust one day.

In the meantime, having challenges---human species challenges---is what makes people tick. And the safe road has none. Not at a scale necessary to inspire them, anyway.

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

Too bad nowadays some people probably look back at the Apollo missions with disdain for a lack of DEI hires.

 

[OverMountain]

Perhaps today we can use robots to do exploration, but there would not be the same sense of wonder.
That moon landing was a huge source of inspiration for a lot of people.
As for learning about the moon’s geological history, a robot can only do so much.
When my uncle retired, one of the astronauts he trained to collect and document samples, might have been Buz Aldrin, spoke about how Lee ran them ragged, out in the New Mexican desert. They all thought they were in peak physical condition, till they had to follow Lee, scampering up steep inclines with 80 or so pounds of equipment and samples on him, and they’d just be dying while this “old guy” wasn’t even breathing hard.
But most importantly, they learned what to look for, what mattered, to a very high degree. It required thinking to optimize the results. To engage and inspire there needs to be human passion and human engagement involved.

Agree! Some tasks are best completed by machines, others are optimized by human performance. At least for now.

 

[carlomarx]

Too bad nowadays some people probably look back at the Apollo missions with disdain for a lack of DEI hires.

NASA Names Diverse Astronaut Crew for Artemis II Moon Mission

The crew’s 10-day journey around the moon and back in 2024 is a crucial step toward returning Americans to the moon on a sustained basis.

www.nytimes.com

DEI in future lunar missions.

 

[fireground_piper]

Perhaps today we can use robots to do exploration, but there would not be the same sense of wonder.
That moon landing was a huge source of inspiration for a lot of people.
As for learning about the moon’s geological history, a robot can only do so much.
When my uncle retired, one of the astronauts he trained to collect and document samples, might have been Buz Aldrin, spoke about how Lee ran them ragged, out in the New Mexican desert. They all thought they were in peak physical condition, till they had to follow Lee, scampering up steep inclines with 80 or so pounds of equipment and samples on him, and they’d just be dying while this “old guy” wasn’t even breathing hard.
But most importantly, they learned what to look for, what mattered, to a very high degree. It required thinking to optimize the results. To engage and inspire there needs to be human passion and human engagement involved.

And that’s fine for a novelty period. But at some point I’m not interested in financing the time and equipment required for basically a few days of human wonderment. Let the investment folks do that, and who want to do that, and then spend the tax dollars when you can get more out of it.

 

[fireground_piper]

If you don't "get it", no explanation will make sense to you.

But I'll try.

In an entropic Universe nothing truly matters, because everything will become dust one day.

In the meantime, having challenges---human species challenges---is what makes people tick. And the safe road has none. Not at a scale necessary to inspire them, anyway.

Safety is not my concern. It’s the public funds when the return is relatively low as of today and the private investment industry and interest is very high.

Let the billionaires waste their money in the name of who can blow up the most rockets while we figure out how to do something notable. NASA doesn’t need to blow up rocket after rocket for the sake of human emotions.

 

[sablebrush52]

And that’s fine for a novelty period. But at some point I’m not interested in financing the time and equipment required for basically a few days of human wonderment. Let the investment folks do that, and who want to do that, and then spend the tax dollars when you can get more out of it.

It was more than a few days of wonderment. It was more than a few weeks of wonderment. And for a great many people, it was a source of inspiration that changed the course of their lives ins a myriad of ways.

Also, technological advances funded through projects like these filter back through the economy creating new jobs and economic growth in the private sector. It's more than just Tang.

 

[ADKPiper]

There is very little support for manned space flight amongst scientists. they view it as a waste of money.
You can launch 10 or so unmanned missions for the cost on 1 manned flight and you get no additional benefit from the manned flight.
If there was an unlimited budget then OK. But if there is any consideration of how to efficiently allocate resources then unmanned wins every time.
The best hope for it is the reality that all these rich guys like to engage in pecker wagging and race each other to launch a bigger rocket. Ironically that might be what puts people on mars. Scientists couldn't care less. For them we have been on mars for decades using unmanned flights. You won't find anyone actually involved in space flight that would support manned flight to mars. The cost would be more than the entire budget for all programs.
People mistakenly think of manned flight to mars in the same category as manned flight to the moon.
It's way way way more complicated. Just the fact that the moon is 250 thousand miles away and stays at that distance. Mars at it's closest is around 30 million miles away. And it's easy to lift off the moon for the return.
For mars it's easier than earth but not a lot easier. Think of the cape Canaveral launches with the big blast off burning many many thousands of gallons of fuel. All of that would need to be on site or carried. A big problem.
It's likely that any manned flight would need to be preceded by many unmanned flights depositing provisions and fuel and food and water etc etc etc. It's very very complicated. And all while we only have certain windows when mars is close enough to earth. And we would get nothing from it that we can't get by sending unmanned flights.

BTW you can check the current distance to mars any day by googling it.

Today it is 217.14 million miles.
868 times as far as the moon.
That would take years to reach.

 

[fireground_piper]

It was more than a few days of wonderment. It was more than a few weeks of wonderment. And for a great many people, it was a source of inspiration that changed the course of their lives ins a myriad of ways.

Also, technological advances funded through projects like these filter back through the economy creating new jobs and economic growth in the private sector. It's more than just Tang.

Again, my stance is.....let private investment do it. It was established in post #1 that NASA is "a bloated, inefficient mess". So why in the world would someone want to give them billions more in money to blow up rocket ships for trial and error when you have multiple private companies with the facilities, money and desire to do that research within our country?

Let Musk and Bezos blow up a few dozen more rockets during the learning period on their own financing and let NASA play a support role in the manned learning endeavor. They'll do it quicker and cheaper anyway.

 

[UB 40]

I was hoping this thread had something to do with Michael Jackson.

Isn’t it a moonwalk thread? What an unforgettable moonwalker M. J. was, and what a gifted musician and composer.

 

[sablebrush52]

Again, my stance is.....let private investment do it. It was established in post #1 that NASA is "a bloated, inefficient mess". So why in the world would someone want to give them billions more in money to blow up rocket ships for trial and error when you have multiple private companies with the facilities, money and desire to do that research within our country?

Let Musk and Bezos blow up a few dozen more rockets during the learning period on their own financing and let NASA play a support role in the manned learning endeavor. They'll do it quicker and cheaper anyway.

Kind of what's happening now anyway. That doesn't mean that tax dollars aren't being spent. These businesses are counting on tax dollars to make them profitable. Your tax dollars will be paying for their failures. That's how it always works. The only difference is with who's making the initial decisions.

As for NASA being bloated and inefficient being established, that's one person's opinion, who I don't personally know, so why would I accept that.

On the other hand, based on my personal encounters with the governmental agencies, that tends to be true, and actually it's true with private companies as well, and is probably true of just about any human endeavor when it gets above 100 people involved.

 

[ADKPiper]

Kind of what's happening now anyway. That doesn't mean that tax dollars aren't being spent. These businesses are counting on tax dollars to make them profitable. Your tax dollars will be paying for their failures. That's how it always works. The only difference is with who's making the initial decisions.

As for NASA being bloated and inefficient being established, that's one person's opinion, who I don't personally know, so why would I accept that.

On the other hand, based on my personal encounters with the governmental agencies, that tends to be true, and actually it's true with private companies as well, and is probably true of just about any human endeavor when it gets above 100 people involved.

I pretty much guarantee that everything of any consequence that NASA does is contracted to private companies.
Generally speaking all government agencies are now staffed by managerial creatures only and the actual work is contracted to the usual handful of companies in VA. All this work turns into a tangle of layers of contracts.
Typically a staffing company contracts to one of the big companies in VA who has a contract it's self with a government agency. If it's anything under the umbrella of Homeland security you can add another layer or 2.
At least this sort of scenario has someone in the loop with some type of accountability. Government agencies are spending other people money and can never fail badly enough to go out of business. And all of the workers at Government agencies are union workers so essentially can never be fired. It's a recipe for incompetence and apathy.

 

[mso489]

I like the new space telescope. It's providing enough grist for the astronomers for the century. It turns out it is better than expected though expectations were high. Now the challenge is figuring out what these extraordinary images tell us about our universe. We're looking back in time millions of years, and in a sense, into the future as well.

We can only hope that humans can be well educated enough to grasp what they could learn. Between the pandemic and anti-science enthusiasms, we have lost ground. People still seem to think that science is proving their opinions rather than testing our intellects in nature to discover things we never suspected.

 

[jpberg]

And that’s fine for a novelty period. But at some point I’m not interested in financing the time and equipment required for basically a few days of human wonderment. Let the investment folks do that, and who want to do that, and then spend the tax dollars when you can get more out of it.

I trust Washington as well.

 

[renfield]

Before we start sending robots out to do exploration we need to make sure we’ve got a diverse selection of robots inclusively chosen for reasons other than capabilities. Roombas on the moon.

 

[keith929]

Funny how this discussion went from space exploration to culture war/politics.
Enough!
Over the years I have enjoyed this forum as a place to engage in conversations without having to endure the back and forth of BS/politics.
Let's just keep it smoky and leave the nattering to politicians.

 

[condorlover1]

I always thought the moon landing was filmed on some Vegas back lot!

 

[jpberg]

Funny how this discussion went from space exploration to culture war/politics.
Enough!
Over the years I have enjoyed this forum as a place to engage in conversations without having to endure the back and forth of BS/politics.
Let's just keep it smoky and leave the nattering to politicians.

Welcome to pmag! Where ya from?

 

[keith929]

Welcome to pmag! Where ya from?

New Jersey Strong !