Fresh vs Aging

Log in

SmokingPipes.com Updates

New Cigars




PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Status
Not open for further replies.

goalee1

Might Stick Around
Jan 21, 2012
86
10
Being new to the pipe game, had a question in regards to aging tobacco. With cigars, depending on the blend and origin, laying them down for several years helps with complexity and depth. Many times, cigars are rolled an not aged enough before they are released so they are "green" followed by a "sick"period. The more premium cigar makers will actually roll the cigars, using aged tobacco, then put them in bundles and age them further before boxing them for anywhere from a min of 6 months to a year. Which brings me to my question of does it matter much when purchasing tobacco and smoking it, if its aged or is fresh better. Not arguing that you can age pipe tobacco but does age make it better or is newly mixed preferred? G1

 
  • Like
Reactions: whiteburleydude

mlaug

Part of the Furniture Now
May 23, 2010
908
2
Iowa
Aromatics and burly based blends don't change much, but other types of blends do change their flavor profile with age. I enjoy both aged tobacco and fresh. Opening new blends lets one taste what the blender was trying to achive and opening older cellered blends lets one taste what they can become.

 

irishsmoker

Lifer
Feb 14, 2012
1,177
0
It really depends on your personal tastes. Some blends I age. Some blends i don't. Or you can buy a couple of tins or in bulk and age some.

 

spartan

Lifer
Aug 14, 2011
2,963
7
It's a bit like asking "what's your favorite color?"
Pipe tobacco doesn't go through a "sick" period. It usually just mellows out with age.
Like your girlfriend when you're 18. She's perky, hyper, and horny.
Marry her, grow up, years pass. She mellows out. Not as perky, hyper, or horny. But hell, neither are you. And if you were both sealed in air-tight containers throughout the years, you'll somewhat ressemble what you once were. :rofl:
The same, but different.
I haven't had the pleasure of tasting an aged blend so I'm just regurgitating things I've read that made sense.
So take it with some tequila and salt.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,638
Chicago, IL
I smoke various blends both ways, and never noticed enough of an improvement from aging to justify

depriving myself of some immediate gratification. I have found that McClelland 5100, Va Red Cake improves

quite a lot, but it's pretty good from the get-go too. I've read that aging won't improve lousy tobaccos.

You'll just end up with old lousy tobaccos.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,443
11,353
Maryland
postimg.cc
Most Virginias smoke better and improve with tin age. English blends as well, but don't hold up as long. I like Dunhills MM965 and to me, that smokes better with some age in the tin (year or so) and drying in a glass decanter.

 

pstlpkr

Lifer
Dec 14, 2009
9,694
31
Birmingham, AL
One might mention that Latakia mellows with age, and can become less pronounced in a blend over time.

Also, (quite by accident) I aged some Highland Whiskey for right at 10 years... The flavor of the Whiskey was intensified and was quite a pleasant surprise.

Some tobaccos before they are added to some blends are aged for some time. Usually just described as "aged".

This just allows the natural flavors of the tobaccos to meld to create a unique and distinctive flavor.
Your question is a good one. You should submit it to Greg. Ask G.L.Pease

 

uberam3rica

Lifer
Sep 7, 2011
4,015
9
Capac, Michigan
I have a bit of Countryside by Boswells that was aged for two years. It's wonderfully mellow. I also have two tins of Balkan Sasieni that were bought in January of 2011. I'm gonna try and age them for another year

 

clunk

Lurker
Apr 9, 2012
35
0
When i first smoked a pipe i smuggled 2 jars of loose stuff over the border to avoid tax. I found that the flavour strengthen as i smoked my way down one jar. One jar became overly strong. In general i think that you need to know how to judge when it has reached its prime. Go beyond that prime and you lose something.
Like Spartan i have no real experience, just those 2 jars i smoke out of for seven years. I do know that we have some of the finest blends on the market at the moment, and only people with far greater abilities than me could produce them.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,443
11,353
Maryland
postimg.cc
I just opened a tin of EMP and found it to be rather harsh out of the tin. I jarred it in the cellar, and will check back in 6 mos to a year. Hopefully, that helps smooth it out some.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,443
11,353
Maryland
postimg.cc
Interesting comments from the master, GL Pease on aging, from the pipedia page:


Aging

G.L. Pease on aging
Q: Will all tobaccos improve with age?
A: Generally, any tobacco with plenty of natural sugars will age wonderfully. Virginia is always a prime candidate, but so are blends with lots or Oriental leaf. Though Oriental varieties don't have as much sugar as Virginias, they do contain enough to go through fermentation in the tin, and will improve over time.
Q: Isn't "fresh" tobacco better?
A: Unless you go to a plantation, or grow your own, you'll never see "fresh" tobacco. By the time it gets into the hands of the blender, it's been cured, sweated, fermented, and allowed to "settle down." Once it's blended, the finished product is allowed to meld for a time before it's put into the tins. Then, the real magic of the aging process begins. While a well conceived blend will be delicious almost immediately after blending, time in the tin will make a noticeable change, adding complexity and smoothing out any rough edges.
Q: How soon is blend "right" for proper smoking?
A: This is dependent upon several factors, including storage method, tobacco processing methods and personal taste. While certainly not at its best, a well conceived blend should smoke well very shortly after it's blended. If it's not good when it's young, it will never become great. Waiting a couple months, or even more, will allow the various components of the blend to "marry," to come together into a cohesive whole, rather than present themselves more as individual aspects of the blend. Within one to five years, the tobacco will really begin to shine. Beyond this time frame, the changes are much more gradual. While the blend may continue to improve for years, even decades, the changes will not be as dramatic as they are in the first few years. Some people enjoy the exuberance of young blends, while others prefer the mature complexity of tobaccos that have been aged for long periods. I recommend experimenting to see what suits you best!
Q: How long can I expect a blend to improve?
A: It really depends on the blend. A full Virginia will continue to improve, though at an increasingly slow rate, over many decades. Most English style tobaccos can go 20-30 years before they begin to go "over the hill." Balkan styles have a shorter life expectancy. Of course, storage conditions will play a part. It the tobacco is cellared at a constant, cool temperature, it will last longer than if it's stored in higher temperatures, or with lots of temperature variations.

http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=Pipe_Tobaccos

 

markw4mms

Lifer
Jun 16, 2011
2,176
2
Bremen,GA
Generally VA's improve with age, Latakia blends mellow, and most aros lose a lot of their flavor (with the possible exception of whiskey flavored).

 

romeowood

Lifer
Jan 1, 2011
1,942
155
The Interwebs
Ok, can of worms ahead. I just had a bit of a discussion about this with Russ Ouellette, regarding pipe tobacco vs. cigar tobacco aging and processing.
*Generally* speaking, all tobacco mellows and thus improves with age because when it's fresh off the plant it's simply unpalatable. Curing is the first step of the process, which initiates the first massive burst of aerobic fermentation and gassing off of the ammoniates.
Again, *generally* speaking, cigar tobacco is aged a minimum of 2-5 years, through very particular processes. Pipe tobacco is similarly processed. Big producers that can afford to warehouse quantities are also able to extend the aging process for particular leaf--for example, GLP's Cumberland utilizes a mahogany Kentucky with 20 years on it. This does not mean Greg has pallets of tobacco bales out in his shed waiting to be blended; rather it means that his supplier does in the warehouse. Many cigar makers are now touting their closely-guarded aging process as a way to market their product--and rightly so, because it ain't cheap and it works.
Now, after the tobacco is processed, be it cigar or pipe, a lot of things can happen. After curing, the leaf is sort of frozen in time--it won't change much from 5 years to 50 years (theoretically, provided it's kept in a hermetically sealed chamber under zero pressure); that is, until it's

A) exposed to moisture

B) blended with other tobaccos

C) blended with additives / flavorings / toppings

D) placed under pressure / heat
Once it's tinned, then another thing happens--it undergoes another short period of aerobic fermentation, followed by extended anaerobic fermentation. That's where the magic happens. In the case of cigars*, after rolling there will be mainly aerobic fermentation that drops quickly to a minuscule amount, and thus it takes a good deal of time longer for changes in taste to be noted. (*Because most cigars are not sealed. In the case of cigars that are tubed, the tobacco behaves the same as pipe tobacco in a tin.)
As a *general* rule of thumb, Virginias change with age more noticeably because of a higher sugar content. A lower sugar content means that there's just less for the microbes to feed on. But all tobacco will age, and most will "improve" to the extent that they become less chemically astringent--there's your mellowness. The magic happens when the different flavors of varying component leaves age together in a sealed environment; there's a Japanese term for art that is created by chance and serendipitously discovered which, for the life of me, I can't think of at the moment. Those who know the language, please feel free to chime in. Anyway, that's what happens.
Also, again as a *general* rule of thumb, the milestones for Virginia aging (in the tin, that is) are at a year, four to five years, then around ten. After that, it's hard to chart--pure Virginias can go indefinitely, while other components like Latakia or burley may fade into tastelessness. Greg Pease has a great blog article about his experiences, and that guy has had a lot of "vintage" tobaccos. From my personal experience (and a few others like DocWatson who were at the Kaywoodie event this past December), Cope's Escudo becomes a religious experience after 60 years. In fact, I believe it can even be elevated to sainthood (Catholics, feel free to chime in on that one). On the cigar side, I've got some Belindas that have sat in the humidor for ~22 years that are frickin' divine as well.
Now, with all that being said, I don't think that as a rule "vintage" tobacco is necessarily all that much better than "fresh" tobacco. It's ready to smoke and be enjoyed when it comes to you, and that's how I take most of it. There's also the price point of buying vintage, either from a well-stocked humidor or on an auction site--for the most part, the math doesn't work out. The main point to take away--cellar what you like, enjoy it as it ages, and don't go crazy looking for the holy grail of ancient tobacco.

That is, unless you're inclined to.

 

captainbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 5, 2010
765
2
The reason Craig Tarler (Cornell and Diehl) does not vacuum-seal his tins is to allow some air to remain inside the tin to facilitate aging. Aging requires air.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



 

pawpaw

Lifer
Jun 25, 2011
1,492
1
cleveland NC
And to add one more thing about C&D blends they date the bottom and I have found many tins with 2 to 3 years already on them and I just picked up a tin of McC VA #24 from 2007 and I have also found some 85 year old tobacco but thats a diffrent story.So when shopping at the local B&M take some time and look and see what you can find on the shelf

 

clanobucklin

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 19, 2010
947
0
I have found all English Blends age well...I have not noticed any Aromatics undergoing any kind of change - maybe a little mellowing. For a superlative English with aged Latakia try Rich's Old Fashion 759 - it has aged latakia in it giving it a smooth taste.

 

captainbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 5, 2010
765
2
I agree with clanobucklin. English Blends, as well as most non-aromatics or very light aromatics age very well. One of the biggest surprises was a four-year "accidental aging" of my Captain Bob's Ship's Mate Blend which is a very light aromatic Burley-based blend. I had given it to a reforming ciggarette smoker who did not smoke it and gave it back to me. What a treat that was! Generally speaking, I would not sugggest that aging improves any aromatic blend. In contrast, non-aromatic blends do age well (my personal exception of Ship's Mate Blend, noted). But I would not recommend aging "typical" aromatic blends as the sauces do lose their "punch" over time. I have proven that to myself with the exception noted. A Manufacturer will tell you that any non-aromatic or aromatic blend is released to enjoy at the time you buy it. Also, they "may admit" that holding it for aging may improve and not deteriorate their blend. Either way, they win. If you buy more to age, they sell more now. If you smoke it up and buy more to smoke, they win. No matter to me whatsoever. Do what you want because you really can't lose because the price is going to continue to rise, regardless.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



 

stogie37

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 24, 2012
673
3,489
Southport, North Carolina
As beautiful as aged VA (Lemon, Orange & Red) can be, there are times that I really want the sharpness that fresh VA brings to a blend. That sharp tanginess often diminishes significantly after 3 or more years of aging, and while nice, it's a much more tame profile than when tinned recently.
On the English side, I am working through 8oz bags of G.L. Pease Picadilly & Kensington from 2003 & 2004 respectively. The pungency of the latakia is certainly mellowed, and the Picadilly - with such a strong VA presence is really rich. The surprise for me were the orientals in the Kensington. They are straight up PUNGENT! It's a nice, but unexpected twist that I didn't see coming. I don't know if I'd want to let these age much longer as the latakia has lost steam and may not be filling the role that the blender intended, allowing the other components to dominate.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.