Fragile Power Grid

[georged]

Making a living getting one's hands dirty (think Mike Rowe's Dirty Jobs) has so many keyboard-centric alternatives for today's under-30's that every level of the infrastructure is starved for workers, not just the power grid.

The list is long. MUCH longer than most people would guess. Railroads, surface roads, bridges, power generation, structures, power distribution, dams, airports, fresh water distribution, sewage collection, waste treatment, farming, ranching, truck driving, landfills, oil, coal, & gas procurement and distribution, and so on. Each one a vital link in a complex evolved chain.

Most of those fields require specialized, apprentice-style training and technical degrees that there are no substitutes for, too, so society "waking up" one day and deciding to address the problem will have a full generation to wait, starting at the bottom with public education reversing its de-emphasis of STEM subjects.

Meanwhile, the decay will be proceeding at an accelerating rate.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

It could have all been paid for a thousand times over with a fraction of what has been pissed away on waste, graft and corruption for decades at every level of government.

You are 100% correct. Adding to the ubiquitous waste now is a climate “crisis,” gender studies, toppling statues of Founders, renaming schools, etc, etc. Oh yeah, and billions and billions to Ukraine.

 

[fireground_piper]

I don’t know where government came into this. Most electricity is generated and delivered via investor owned enterprise, not government owned transmission in the US.

 

[Blue ridge smoke]

Generac 22kw home generator and a buried 500 gallon propane tank. Little bit of money but I don't have to worry about the power going out.

 

[georged]

I don’t know where government came into this. Most electricity is generated and delivered via investor owned enterprise, not government owned transmission in the US.

brian64 used it as a sarcastic way to summarize an amount for illustrative purposes, not because the government owned the power companies.

 

[condorlover1]

My former residence in the U.K did not have electricity. It was built in the 1890s, purchase new and lived in until the first owner passed away and then lived in by their children so nothing changed up to the point I purchased the place. No electricity, gas lighting, outside crapper, coal fired range and fire place in every bedroom. Tin bath for bath nights in the kitchen and an out house for the laundry. I thought it was a wonderful little cottage untouched by the modern world. If I had not come to the U.S I would still be there to this day growing all sorts of crap in the garden. Once a week I would the battery in the side car down to my friend to charge it so I could listen to the radio. The modern world is an over rated experience my friends.

 

[georged]

My former residence in the U.K did not have electricity. It was built in the 1890s, purchase new and lived in until the first owner passed away and then lived in by their children so nothing changed up to the point I purchased the place. No electricity, gas lighting, outside crapper, coal fired range and fire place in every bedroom. Tin bath for bath nights in the kitchen and an out house for the laundry.

Lord Grantham, is that you?

 

[brian64]

brian64 used it as a sarcastic way to summarize an amount for illustrative purposes, not because the government owned the power companies.

Yes, correct, thank you...also I was responding to the larger issues @Briar Lee was commenting on in his post regarding various types of infrastructure costs, some of which the government is involved in.

PS: and for that matter, there's been a history of waste and corruption with a number of big power companies as well.

 

[Briar Tuck]

Keep bitching at the power company to bury the lines. It doesn't do a lot of good but will make you feel better.
Generators are a good way to go but they cost lot and you don't use them that much.

The power lines on my street are buried, but all the transformers and connections in the area are on poles, so our buried lines don't prevent power outages, which are fairly frequent due to the many trees and winter storms here on the coast.

Our 17kw Generac sees frequent use and I'd never own a home here without one. We pump our water from the lake we live on, so no electricity means no water too. No bueno.

We just had a big storm roll in here yesterday and it has just abated. The lights flickered many times throughout the night but the power only went out once, the generator kicked on, and a few minutes later shut off again when the power came back (the fastest that's ever happened). We got lucky, because much of the coast here are still without power. When you are without power for a week, which has happened here more than once, you will greatly appreciate your generator.

 

[Briar Tuck]

I don’t know where government came into this. Most electricity is generated and delivered via investor owned enterprise, not government owned transmission in the US.

The government is tits deep into everything, and public utilities are no exception.

 

[Briar Tuck]

Generac 22kw home generator and a buried 500 gallon propane tank. Little bit of money but I don't have to worry about the power going out.

This is the way.

 

[Briar Lee]

I don’t know where government came into this. Most electricity is generated and delivered via investor owned enterprise, not government owned transmission in the US.

Not one power company would ever build transmission or distribution lines without a government monopoly.

In return for their local monopoly, the rates are regulated so they can’t screw the public.

 

[fireground_piper]

Regulation does not make a utility public.

 

[Briar Lee]

Regulation does not make a utility public.

Perhaps there’s a place in the USA where you can call the power company and say I’m switching power companies today, you sunnzabeaches.

But every power company I’ve ever heard of was a public utility.

Most are investor owned.

Some are rural cooperatives.

If there suddenly appeared a buried power cable fairy, giving away free buried power lines, they’d all sign up.

Instead the customers pay for burying the power lines, not directly, but they pay.

Which is why, the power lines are so slow to get buried.

 

[trouttimes]

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

 

[fireground_piper]

Perhaps there’s a place in the USA where you can call the power company and say I’m switching power companies today, you sunnzabeaches.

But every power company I’ve ever heard of was a public utility.

Most are investor owned.

Some are rural cooperatives.

If there suddenly appeared a buried power cable fairy, giving away free buried power lines, they’d all sign up.

Instead the customers pay for burying the power lines, not directly, but they pay.

Which is why, the power lines are so slow to get buried.

Have you ever seen a public agent try and get the power company to do something they wanted? Then you would know it’s laughable. Outside broad things like price caps, basic service requirements and future service/technology requirements, private power companies operate as they see fit day to day.

Town councils aren’t getting them to do anything. County officials aren’t. State officials aren’t. Emergency centers and OEM agents can’t dictate anything to them. They operate and triage themselves to meet the overall regulatory objectives they are required to provide. That is not a public operation.

When governors hop up on prime time news to threaten power companies to specific action “or else” then that should give you a good insight into who is running who.

 

[cossackjack]

Fragility of human foibles…

A few years ago we expected 2+ feet for heavy wet Spring snow transitioning to Colorado’s “champagne powder” as storm intensified, but our winding paved mountain road had yet to be plowed.

Along comes the country snowplow driven by a stoned, heavy metal head banging while filming himself on YouTube live.

Of course he missed the 90-degree turn, taking down the power pole with a nearly fully loaded truck.

We were power down for 22-23 hours.

 

[Briar Lee]

Have you ever seen a public agent try and get the power company to do something they wanted? Then you would know it’s laughable. Outside broad things like price caps, basic service requirements and future service/technology requirements, private power companies operate as they see fit day to day.

Town councils aren’t getting them to do anything. County officials aren’t. State officials aren’t. Emergency centers and OEM agents can’t dictate anything to them. They operate and triage themselves to meet the overall regulatory objectives they are required to provide. That is not a public operation.

When governors hop up on prime time news to threaten power companies to specific action “or else” then that should give you a good insight into who is running who.

The first question anybody should ask, is how could you do it better?

Looking at Texas, there’s a good example not to follow. Sooner or later, the Texas legislature will connect Texas to the national grid.

There are about 190 nations in this old sin cussed world, and every last one of them would like cheap, reliable, available, dependable electric power to their people.

Every one has barber shops where almost every patron is an expert on on the generation, transmission, distribution and payment for electricity to the people.

The wise course, is to have the power companies be granted a local monopoly, then regulate them as to rates and availability.

There is “energy choice” in 17 states.

Electricity Rates by State — Electric Choice

Average electricity rates for each state are displayed in map and table form. Rates are presented in cents per kilowatt hour (kWh).

www.electricchoice.com

But only Southwest Electric serves Spout Spring Hollow.



That shows an eighth of a mile of distribution wires that turns south and serves one customer another half mile back.

It would cost over a half a million dollars to bury that stretch, and replacing poles is much cheaper.

If it had not been for the REA they’d still burn kerosene for light in the Ozarks.

As it is, Southwest Electric serves the Ozarks for $25 a month and .085 cents a kilowatt hour.



Plus they give a capital credit back, every so often.

I’m no expert about power companies.

I’m just glad there are experts thaf work for the power companies.

 

[Briar Tuck]

Have you ever seen a public agent try and get the power company to do something they wanted? Then you would know it’s laughable. Outside broad things like price caps, basic service requirements and future service/technology requirements, private power companies operate as they see fit day to day.

Town councils aren’t getting them to do anything. County officials aren’t. State officials aren’t. Emergency centers and OEM agents can’t dictate anything to them. They operate and triage themselves to meet the overall regulatory objectives they are required to provide. That is not a public operation.

When governors hop up on prime time news to threaten power companies to specific action “or else” then that should give you a good insight into who is running who.

Happens all the time. Public utilities are highly regulated, usually via public utilities commissions, but also through legislation.

Prepping for 2021 wildfires, Oregon adopts rules for preemptive blackouts by utilities - https://www.oregonlive.com/wildfires/2021/05/prepping-for-2021-wildfire-season-oregon-regulators-adopt-rules-governing-preemptive-blackouts-by-utilities.html#:~:text=The%20Oregon%20Public%20Utility%20Commission%20has%20adopted%20temporary,equipment%20is%20implicated%20or%20impacted%20by%20fire%20starts.

 

[puff_not_snuff]

It seems incredible that some bumkin can simply stick a gun through a chain link fence and shoot-up a transformer and cause it to crash the grid.