For the Coffee Heads

[pstlpkr]

I have a question... prompted by: (maybe worthy of some debate... not argument)

I drank nothing but espresso, and I really want to get one of those Moka pots that Kevin has. Its like freebasing caffeine!

I watched a TV program about coffee... (It's been a while ago) In that program they stated that coffee drinks like Espresso actually have a lower caffeine content than Drip or French Presses.

The reason being: The time required to produce an Espresso as compared to a French Press for example is considerably shorter and the caffeine hasn't had the time required to leech fully from the grounds...
I tend to agree with the above assertion... I know that a Turkish Coffee taking approximately 15 minutes to produce 1 little demitasse, and an Espresso takes less than 5 minutes for the entire process. (The Espresso requiring more ground coffee [by volume] than the Türk kahvesi.) While, tasting just as strong, Espresso doesn't give me the " 8O " that a Turkish Coffee does.... by extension the French Press and Drip are stronger as well (per cup).
What say you?

 

[romeowood]

OK, this one topic is a huge debate but can be clarified with the science.

The SCAA (Specialty Coffee Association of America) and by extension the BGA (Barista Guild of America) [full disclosure: I'm a member of both, but don't necessarily subscribe to all "definitions".], define an espresso as this:

"Espresso is a 25-35 ml (~1 oz) beverage prepared from 7-9 grams (single) or 14-18 grams (double) of coffee through which clean water of 195-205 F has been forced at 9-10 barre of pressure, and where the grind of the coffee is such that the brew time is 20-30 seconds."

This definition changes incrementally from time to time, as the general consensus of flavor is refined.But we'll take that as our base for the purpose of discussion.
Now brewed coffee is a much wider range; the general cup size for a brew is accepted at 8 ounces (236.6ml).
So starting from this basis, the averages will show us that a shot of espresso will contain 30-50mg of caffeine while an 8 oz. cup of coffee may contain from 50-200mg. So, the short answer is that by volume, espresso has significantly more, but by serving significantly less.
Now, the fun begins.
There are dozens of factors that determine the amount of soluble caffeine that can be extracted in either an espresso or a brewed coffee, from the blend of beans (Robusta coffee has significantly more caffeine content than Arabica), roast (particularly the Maillard process that occurs), to grind, agitation, time and temperature of brew and even how long it sits and cools before ingestion. In terms of how we ingest caffeine, espresso may offer more readily-ingestable caffeine as it is consumed immediately after preparation (this is not speaking to milk-mixed or other espresso-based drinks). Add to that the fact that evolving science has concluded that

"Caffeine alone does not exert any potentiating effect, confirming that ingredients other than caffeine are partially responsible for the stimulating effect of coffee on the cardiovascular system." -Sudano et al., Hypertension, 2005; 46:521-526

and it begins to seem that there is a lot more science that we need to uncover to fully understand this wonderful beverage's total effect on our bodies, the psychological component certainly among them. Trimethylxanthines (of which caffeine is one) and Dimethylxanthines are the major kick-starters in coffee, but as I mentioned before there are thousands of chemical constituents that all weave a remarkably complex interplay as they impact our palates, our bodies and our psyches. Individuals also metabolize caffeine at different rates, and these rates can be affected by other physiopathologies as well as genetic factors, not to mention what we're eating or smoking with the ingestion of caffeine.
Soooo....long story short, espresso has more caffeine per volume than a brewed coffee; even in the case of your Turkish preparation, the extended brewing time at temperature will serve to break down some of the tri- and di-methylxanthine structures, rendering different compounds. It would take a chemical analysis to determine exact proportion, but as a guide, coffee beans only contain 1-2% of the chemical per volume, so you can never have more than what you've ground. Add to that the fact that your brew contains a lot of sugar and other spice components that may (or may not!) enhance the caffeine "buzz".
Wow, long post and I don't think I've actually clarified anything...hope that helps! :crazy:

 

[pstlpkr]

Thanks Romeo.

Believe it or not; that was quite helpful.

So... I suppose I'm safe and saying...

The caffeine content of coffee regardless of preparation is relative to the type of bean and its roasing used in brewing.

And, only quantity consumed (give or take sugar, milk, etc.) is the only factor of any relevance.

It is quite possible and I might say probable that the sugar in Turkish Coffee is what gives me the extra 8O over Espresso.

Thanks again.

 

[admin]

I think you were under the influence of caffeine on that post Romeowood.

 

[romeowood]

My daily caffeine intake has been categorized as inhuman, and possibly inhumane, yes. :crazy:

Lawrence, you were thankfully able to distill what I was trying to say and make it sensible and concise. Whee!

Man, coffee's GOOD, huh? :roll:

 

[lordnoble]

I love this thread!
-Jason

 

[romeowood]

Me too! My two favorite things to geek out on!

Sent you a PM by the way, Jason--

Also, I responded to yours as well Jankomatic, check your mail.

 

[pstlpkr]

Me too Jason.
Wheeeeeee!

:D

 

[abecox]

Also thanks to... uh... someone... I'm going down to a few Middle Eastern Markets nearby to see if I can grab an Ibrik. I love love love love turkish coffee and it looks super easy to make.

 

[thekiltedchaplain]

Wow, its great to know I'm not the only person who's obsessive/compulsive with my coffee, or as I prefer to say, has good taste.

 

[juni]

Ok, Ibrik experts. Would this be worth getting?
Ibrik on ebay

 

[igloo]

The cups are very small , think of a double shot glass with a handle .

 

[baronsamedi]

I finally got the missing part to my Pyrex stovetop perc, so now it's fixed. I like some Eight-O'Clock coffee with some EMP in the morning. In the afternoon, I brew it extra strong and then ice it! I also like coffee and chickory. Some people think it tastes like dirt but it's like comfort food for me. Blue Mountain is the bomb too, but It's been awhile since I've had some.

 

[pstlpkr]

@juni
It looks just fine.

Just bear in mind that (Like Igloo mentioned) they are very small.

My ibrik is about 3-1/2" tall w/out the handle.

 

[grouchy]

good coffee makes my spoon float on the borderline of decentagrating 8O

 

[pstlpkr]

I must have a Turkish Coffee this evening...
I have way too much blood in my caffeine stream.

 

[bigvan]

decentagrating ?
Is that a coffee term?

 

[pstlpkr]

decentagrating ?

Dissolve might work.

 

[juni]

Ordered it. I was planning on heating it with a small camping gas heater, since the flame is much more adjustable than my normal stove and you don't want to boil the water (which apparently makes the coffee bitter). Looking forward to trying some turkish coffee.

 

[romeowood]

you don't want to boil the water

THAT IS CORRECT!

Ideal temperature for full extraction is between 190-205 Fahrenheit; boiling point (212F @ 1bar) will degrade the Maillard process, which is a fancy way of saying you'll be breaking down the chemical structure of the coffee oils. Sadly most coffee equipment for the home does not have accurate or even useful temperature gauging--most drip pots operate around 150-180F. I cannot overstate how important proper temperature is to extraction. It is easier to do at home than you might imagine, however; a small investment in a good stainless steel kettle and a thermometer can change your world.

Cheers!