Ferrous Tins inside Mylar - A Quick Recipe For Disaster?

[gawithhoggarth]

The simple solution for all of this is to simply stop selling tins. In a recent thread on G&H deliveries, much of the difficulties could be traced back to tinning. Dump tinning, just sell in bulk. People can then decide how they want to deal with their personal preferences toward the handling of their purchase. Cuts costs, saves time, less pollution and freedon for all. Tinning is clearly the devils hand job.

And what about the people that like to buy the odd tin to smoke fairly soon after purchase, the shops that cannot or do not want to sell bulk and stock tins...this is only a problem for those that want to buy tins to cellar and long term store, it is not a problem for those that buy tins, smoke the tobacco and then buy another tin or two....the way the tobacco and packaging was designed for.

 

[sablebrush52]

And what about the people that like to buy the odd tin to smoke fairly soon after purchase, the shops that cannot or do not want to sell bulk and stock tins...this is only a problem for those that want to buy tins to cellar and long term store, it is not a problem for those that buy tins, smoke the tobacco and then buy another tin or two....the way the tobacco and packaging was designed for.

I believe I was referencing a statement you made in the course of that thread about tinning holding up shipping. Please don't take me too seriously, I've been known to put tongue firmly in cheek, but if it does make sense to offer more in bulk, maybe that's not such a bad thing. Any idea of how it generally breaks down in percentages and how that relates to your markets?

BTW, when I got stated smoking, some 50+ years ago, popping into a tobacconist's and buying a couple of ounces of something for the week was more the norm, and I could pretty much buy anything from a bulk bag, which was weighed out on a scale. It's not like this is anything absolutely new under the sun.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

Packing into tins is certainly a longer process. Some countries only take tins, others take a mixture.The UK market is much different in that many of the specialist tobacconist and convenience stores take bulk to the weigh out and sell in smaller amounts to their customers. Consumers in the UK would not really tend to buy directly in bulk due the taxes and hence price here. And they are not buying really to cellar. Most blends I think are available in bulk but maybe FDA rules prohibit some being sold this way in the States.

 

[paulfg]

I really dont see the problem for normal smokers,if you plan to keep it a long time then jar/mylar it,the tin doesnt affect the tobaccos performance.
it is only a problem for those looking to sell onwards later at a vast profit,

 

[captpat]

I don't Mylar tins.

^^^^ This, never saw the need or benefit. Maybe I've been lucky, I've never had a tin seal fail. I do use mylar to cellar bulk blends, I repackage the bulk into 2 oz bags and then heat seal them.

 

[AppalachianPipe92]

I see many overthinking storage. My tins are stored in containers that are hermetically closed and with one of these (or similar) inside:



I have 30 year old tins without signs of rust that lived in Mississippi for years before being transported to Colorado, and are still going strong. Actually, I never had rust problems from the outside of the tins (on the inside is another matter).

This is how I do mine. Just stack tins in plastic containers with a rubber seal around the rim of the lid. Only rust I've had were Sutliff tins that sat on a bookshelf.

 

[mingc]

Packing into tins is certainly a longer process. Some countries only take tins, others take a mixture.The UK market is much different in that many of the specialist tobacconist and convenience stores take bulk to the weigh out and sell in smaller amounts to their customers. Consumers in the UK would not really tend to buy directly in bulk due the taxes and hence price here. And they are not buying really to cellar. Most blends I think are available in bulk but maybe FDA rules prohibit some being sold this way in the States.

Many, if not most, B&Ms in the US still sell bulk tobacco by the ounce. And so do all the major on-line retailers, although I see that a couple have stopped offering your company's products that way. I assume that's because they have sufficient demand for your 250g/500g packages that they don't need to bother breaking them up to sell in lesser amounts.

 

[UB 40]

Encease your tins in resin and concrete and put it 2000 feet under ground in a final atomic waste disposal or simply a former salt mine. It may outlast a few thousand years. Only drawback will be smoking the so far treated stuff in near future will not be so easy.

But joking aside, contact corrosion between Mylar bags - usually sputtered on the outside of the bag with aluminium particles - is unlikely to happen, because the tin is inside touching the untreated Mylar foil side and in addition the tinplate is lacquered. So there is no direct contact surface between the different metals. When the tin corrodes it’s going to happen from the humidity inside.

But I don’t support hoarding of tobaccos anyway. I think ageing of tobacco to an unpredictable taste level is a hype anyways and not what any blender is looking for. And I am sure, that tobacco will still be available.
Of course some people profit from the hopefully temporary fad.

I like to buy tins of tobacco and smoke them in a short period of time. Some blends I don’t smoke often are put in jars to stay smokable at certain humidity levels at least a few months.

"Art, wealth, power and boldness die/ The world and all its doings corrupt/ An eternal comes after this time/ You fools, flee vanity." These are words that artist Sebastian Stoskopff put on a still life in 1641, now owned by the Musée de l'Oeuvre Notre-Dame in Strasbourg.

 

[sablebrush52]

"Art, wealth, power and boldness die/ The world and all its doings corrupt/ An eternal comes after this time/ You fools, flee vanity." These are words that artist Sebastian Stoskopff put on a still life in 1641, now owned by the Musée de l'Oeuvre Notre-Dame in Strasbourg.

He must have been a riot at cocktail parties.

 

[npod]

After reading numerous recent examples of tin corrosion from tin collectors and smokers on Instagram, seeing the question raised on Reddit, and seeing that @beezer 's informative thread from 2021 is closed for further comment, I believe this is something that really needs to be investigated and discussed further. @Groot5225 also posed a question specific to SG tins here, but I think this really needs a dedicated thread on the subject of Mylar itself (or maybe beezer's old thread can be reopened?). Using Mylar to preserve tins for deep storage seems to be gaining in popularity and it might just be the worst thing we can do.

It appears that some ferrous tins are rapidly corroding inside of Mylar bags due to some sort of electrolytic or galvanic corrosion (i.e. a reaction between the iron in the tin, the gases inside the bag, and the aluminum inside the mylar). From limited anecdotes online, it seems as though some ferrous tins can begin corroding on the coutside surfaces in less than a year under these circumstances. If you have Instagram, check out npod101 's post from June 3. (@npod is this you? Would love for you to chime in and share your info!) It is quite saddening - Tin after tin with severe outer corrosion...

Would love to continue a discussion on this subject and seek further examples from members. Can some of you check your older bags? I Mylared a bunch of mine 2 months ago and just took them all out as a precaution. No corrosion, though I did use O2 absorbers.

That was indeed my post on June 3. I have since confirmed that any tobacco tin that is "magnetic" (i.e. ferrrous, iron based) will indeed corrode if touching naked mylar. I had multiple such tins in mylar and many were starting to corrode. Luckily I was able to save them. Two options, 1)don't put naked tins in mylar, 2)use food saver or plastic around the metal tins and then put in mylar (or not).

Here is the trick, Use a magnet on your tobacco tins. If it sticks, then the tin is ferrous and should not be touching mylar directly.

 

[OverMountain]

That is literally the definition of corrosion. Two dissimilar metals and moisture.