FDA Regulations: New Article Aug 2, 2016 by Tom Wolfe

[sablebrush52]

@Tom

Well that's interesting. They've revised their section on pipe tobacco and regulations. Here's a link to the FDA pdf that appears to exclude components:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/UCM501431.pdf
On page three, under Covered Tobacco Products, it states "All newly regulated tobacco products excluding (bold and underline in the FDA document) components and parts not made or derived from tobacco."
Seems they have included pipes though they are not made of tobacco. Shouldn't be impossible to get the inclusion of pipes as regulated, overturned, since they are made from wood, not tobacco.
And I now see what I missed, which is contradictory language in the foreward.
Curse them for the scoundrels that they are.

 

[jefff]

I try to be optimistic in most things but this may indeed be the slow death of pipe smoking.

 

[jacks6]

I feel the same way.

 

[curl]

One question: How badly will these rules impact tobacco companies that use the word "billion" to describe their business?

 

[tomwolfe]

To Sablebrush52
I made the same mistake when first reading the regs. The FDA uses three different definitions of tobacco products. "Tobacco products" includes both pipe tobacco and pipes. "Covered tobacco products" includes pipe tobacco, but not pipes. "Finished tobacco products" includes both.
I had to go back and re-read everthing, keeping those definitions in mind..

 

[sablebrush52]

@Tom,
This reminds me of things we used to do in feature films to get something we wanted past the censor. We'd put in scenes we knew would draw fire to get the other stuff passed. Wouldn't surprise me if some of this was added knowing that there would be litigation and they could just sacrifice that stuff.
Thanks for clearing this up for me and sorry for the roar earlier.

 

[edgreen]

Imagine if they tried the same thing with food. You know the thing that every human needs. Suppose everytime a chef created a new dish or changed ingredients to reflect seasonal changes they had to pay thousands of dollars to have it tested and approved. The only restaurants would be McDonald's and Applebee's. Starbucks the only coffee house, Baskin Robbins the only ice cream parlor. We would all eat crap and fill the health services to overflowing. It seems that only big tobacco could survive the regulations. Yet, some will brag how they took on big tobacco.

Really?

 

[tbthomps]

Edgreen gets it. These regulations are a gift to big tobacco in the form of regulatory capture and repossession of markets that they were slow on the draw with (e cigarettes, etc). In return the government centralizes tax revenues and consolidates their revenue streams by preventing fragmentation. Not to mention ensuring all of the sweet lobbyist checks continue to follow.

 

[jackswilling]

Why do people mention e-cigs? This has nothing to do with e-cigs other than the deeming date. There was no e-cig market when this passed. Let's be real it's the nanny l......s at work. See paragraph 2.

 

[virginiacob]

sablebrush,
I think you hit the nail on the head. I've been thinking the exact same thing. I've dealt with regulatory agencies over the years and it always seems that when they are pushing for new regulatory authority, they throw in their entire "wish list" to give them more room for negotiations when ievitably challenged by lawsuits and/or legislative action, knowing full well that they aren't going to get everything they want. Reach for the stars but settle for the moon so to speak. Hopefully there will be some wiggle room for some level-headed negotiation.

 

[andrew]

I try to be optimistic in most things but this may indeed be the slow death of pipe smoking.

If anything it will be a test, I remember when I started pipe smoking paying 35$ for a 50 gram tin, rationing every last crumb, only smoking maybe once or twice a week. Cigarettes where I am have gone about 2.50 a pack to almost 20$ a pack now in my lifetime, and just as many people are still smoking cigarettes it seems. If anything people will still smoke pipes, just not as big a variety of pipe tobacco, or americans will have to start doing what most of the rest of the pipe smokers in the world do, and that's international ordering.

 

[tomwolfe]

To jackswilling,
This has far more to do with e-cigarettes and hookahs than it has to do with pipes. The FDA requires registration of all tobacco product manufacturers (for example) but the forms do not even have a category for pipe makers.

 

[timpiper]

Did they do their research before making these new regulations?
Did they even know artisan pipes and pipe makers existed?

Did they know about the yearly limited once off holiday pipes made?

Did they know about the yearly limited once off holiday pipe blends?

Did they know about house pipe blends?

Did they know about limited batch blends or special edition blends?
What about estate pipes and vintage tobacco sales?

What about personal importing of tobacco blends?
How can you regulate without the research?
I think there will be much information presented at the lawsuit which of which the FDA did consider or know about.
-Tim

 

[timpiper]

Corrected version -
Did they do their research before making these new regulations?
Did they even know artisan pipes and pipe makers existed?

Did they know about the yearly limited once off holiday pipes made?

Did they know about the yearly limited once off holiday pipe blends?

Did they know about house pipe blends?

Did they know about limited batch blends or special edition blends?
What about estate pipes and vintage tobacco sales?

What about personal importing of tobacco blends?
How can you regulate without the research?
I think there will be much information presented at the lawsuit of which the FDA did not consider or know about.
-Tim

 

[sablebrush52]

The FDA has already blinked. Sued by Middleton over potential banning of the descriptor "mild" used on their Black and Mild trademark, the FDA stated that they had no intention of bringing an enforcement action over using the word "mild" and the suit was dropped.
Also, the House Agriculture appropriations bill for fiscal 2016-17 contains language restricting funding for FDA "substantial equivalent" restrictions on e-cigs, hookahs, and vaporizers with a predicate, or start, date of August 8 2016.
So there is some push back happening. What this means for pipes and tobaccos, I don't know, but it suggests to me that there is some possibility for some kind of roll back.

 

[hextor]

ahhhh too bad i had just started my hobby, and i wish i had a vast collection of all kinds of tobaccos and tins. i hope the lawsuit will pass, hate to see some of my favorite blends go away for good.

 

[perdurabo]

I think the "FDA has authority" is where the lawsuit should start. Regardless of statutory law....congress broke the law by transferring its authority to the FDA regarding tobacco. I'm not certain of the date this happened but congress cannot do this. Congress can not transfer its authority to another branch of government...in this case to the Executive Branch which the FDA unconstitutionally resides. I know many of you could care less about the government restricting document called The US Constitution, but it could have protected us on this issue. To me getting dates moved and winning little discrepancies is rather pointless. Strike at the very heart of the matter....

 

[jackswilling]

^^^ I agree, but the SCOTUS let that cow out of the barn long ago. Unelected cubicle workers now micromanage every facet of our lives. So, no there will be no change for the better as far as pipes and pipe tobacco go unless there is a major turn-over in the SCOTUS. Moving the deeming date would make me happy.

 

[hextor]

I have one brick and mortar here in Houston Texas that is very reliable, and they do make their own blends, i hope they can weather the storm and have the vast collection of blends and tins, this is going to impact a lot of tobacconist and their blends.

 

[hextor]

I have one brick and mortar here in Houston Texas that is very reliable, and they do make their own blends, i hope they can weather the storm and have the vast collection of blends and tins, this is going to impact a lot of tobacconist and their blends.